Blood, gore and edict's
I have been thinking about this for a while now, and I didn't quite know how to approach this issue. Procrastinations aside, I realised that the best approach is the direct approach. So if there are squeamish people out there, swallow your prudishness, take a pill, a deep breath, whatever.
This post is about female sexuality. To elaborate, I am going to try and examine how feminine sexuality with respect to the menstruation cycle or monthly 'period' is mediated by Hindu religion and culture.
As a girl in a liberal Hindu household I was not part of the ritual 'seclusion when a girl is on her period', but I have seen growing up, that some of my friends were confined to one room in the house during their menstrual periods. They were secluded, their only contact with other members of the household was when someone brought food to them. Back in middle school, when girls get together, and talk about these 'taboo' things excitedly, they would casually mention that they are on their 'seclusion' time and I would be baffled. They were from seemingly modern households with educated parents and yet, they were put through this 'ritual seclusion'.
This happens in a lot of Hindu households, where girls are 'secluded' during menstruation for the laughable reason that they are 'unclean'. Because of this so called uncleanliness, girls are prohibited from entering temples, lighting the ritual diyas, taking part in festivites and in some extreme cases they are not allowed to talk because their voices in that 'contaminated' state brings so called bad luck in the household's proceedings.
This is absolute hogwash. A girls menstrual cycle is as natural an occurrence as breathing. A woman has to go through menstruation once a month, and thats how it is, and thats how it always has been. How can this be called unclean? Does this mean that having a uterus and a vagina is wrong in the first place? These vile ideas were perpetuated by the patriarchal hindu society to make women subservient to men. Unfortunately a lot of Hindu women(educated women,including!) blindly follow this themselves without questioning the reasons behind this ridiculous monthly ritual. If a natural physiological process like mernache or menstruation is 'sinful', what about other processes like deficating, urinating and sweating? The feces and urine are infinitely and literally more contaminated than menstrual blood. So why cant people be banned for entering temples for these actions? Ridiculous isnt it? So isnt it ridiculous for attaching a stigma to menstruation alone?
The Hindu culture for all its greatness is chock full of contradictions. When a girl contracts her first menstruation cycle, the event is celebrated with all pomp and joy to represent her passage into womanhood. She is showered with gifts from all her relatives for this joyous occasion and YET month after month she is secluded for being 'unclean' and 'contaminated'. What is the meaning of this? On one hand the cycle of menstruation is celebrated as a passage into womanhood and on the other hand it is condemned as a sin and the poor woman is thrown into seclusion.
Doesn't it sound deranged? Look at it in a rational perspective, try to block out all the rules and rituals you already know, and think clinically. You will realise that in this contradiction lies the answer that this monthly 'seclusion' is a baseless, sadistic, ritual.
We as Hindu's have always prayed to Goddesses like Shakthi, Durga(another manisfestation of Shakthi) and Lakshmi to name a few. These Godesses are the embodiment of power, Shakthi and Durga in particular are fierce and independent and are oftentimes considered more powerful than their consorts. Why is it that with such beautiful and powerful feminine icons in our religion, something as simple and basic as menstrual blood evokes such negative reactions from Indians? The last time I checked Goddess Durga and Lakshmi were women, so to prevent WOMEN(during their monthly cycle) from entering their temples atleast, is idiotic and blasphemous.
Bottom line, it is retarded to think that menstruation is 'dirty' or 'filthy' and Gods forbid women to come to their temples, because they are on their so called 'dirty' menstrual cycles.
Our Gods and Goddesses are benovelent, it does not matter to Them if you are ugly or 'impure' or maimed or whatever.
Purity has nothing to do with any person shedding blood or any kind of liquid from their orfices. Purity comes from the thought, and the conscious actions that stem from that thought.
In Hinduism, the cardinal goal for a human being is to be released from all bodily attachments and attain Nirvana. This is achieved by your CONSCIOUS and DELIBRATE actions, and the Karma which is generated by it.
Women and men(YES, men) should take a stance on this and spread the voice of reason.
Women, NO God or Goddess will strike you dead, or hurl divine weapons at you, or CURSE you with eternal damnation, if you visit a temple during your period. Take my word for it.
Post Script: A lot of women because of this ridiculous stigma, have resorted to pill popping to keep away their period during festive occasions, with dangerous consequences. Please check this article out and see for yourself:
Purity at a price
Labels: Being brown, Cultural craphola, Exasperation, Feminisms, Say wha?
posted by the wannabe indian punkster 
2:20 PM
107 Comments:
Completely idiotic practices there are other than this that Hindu follow (based on rationality). Myself being Hindu, but never agreed to such stupid things. God knows, what people were thinking when following these practices.
Hi, I read your post on menstruating women. Actually this seclusion is an ancient female practice and we have lost the true meaning of it. In every culture women used to come together at our moon time, or menstrual time and go to the menstrual hut. Here the elder women would tell stories, teachings of the community and culture, and women's mysteries and magic. Men did not approach the hut. Men were not allowed to enter the hut. Men were not a part of this powerful woman time. We are so powerful at this time of menstruation. We are cleansing ourselves - not because we are unclean, but because our bodies have ripened to bear a child - and with no conception, the uterus releases her lining. In the old days we would sit in the moss floored menstrual hut and bleed into the earth. The sacred water inside us would then be absorbed by our mother earth and return to her. This was a time for us women to rest from our daily chores. Other women would care for our children. Husbands respected this time. We had time and space to meditate, pray, sing songs, massage one another, and sit as sisters.
Of course this was before the patriarchal dominance that we are living through. Men (not all men) twisted this sacred ritual into a way to humiliate and control women. This is why we have the practices of today as you described meghan.
I am an Indian/English woman married to a North American First Nations man. A kind of East meets West Indian union!
In his culture, here on the West Coast of Canada, Native women were practising these ancient ceremonies, passed from generation to generation, until only a few hundred years ago. Until the colonisers came and desecrated the indigenous people and culture...but that is another subject! So let us not forget the reasons for this special time!
How can we bring these old ways into our modern world? Unless we live in the wilderness we can't really go to a menstrual hut for 5 or more days every month.
Especially living in cities, well you have to go to work for one thing, so taking a week off every month to celebrate your period with your sisters would probably have you out of a job.
But we can bring specialness back to this time. When we are menstruating we can honour our bodies by resting, taking time to allow our bodies to do the work. Meditate, pray, sing songs. Be kind to yourself. Refrain from sex, let your body go through the process of release.
spend time with other women. talk about what it means to be a woman. We are the life givers - we have been given the gift of the ability to give life, to nurture and care for life. let us never forget this. we are strong and full of power. Some men are afraid of this power.
A comment on women being excluded from regular ceremonies at their moon time. Women, we don't NEED to do these ceremonies at this time. We are having our very OWN ceremony, naturally, every month.
We are so powerful and full of a special energy at this time that men can generally not handle it.
Haven't you noticed how scared men are of a menstruating woman? we have modern stories and myths of PMS, mood swings, powerful outbursts of emotion and spirit. Well why are we so uncontrollable?
Because we have forgotten to honour ourselves. Our cultures have forgotten to honour us. We have nowhere to channel all this energy we are feeling. So lets reclaim our bodies and our honour. Let's make our menstrual time special again. Educate your families, your husbands and your children. We can change the degrading practices of today, if we remember our histories, and come together as sisters of the moon...:-)!!!
Thanks for listening, i hope this makes a difference to the way you think about women and menstruation.
I'm happy to discuss more if you want to email me.
Cheers! Anisah
Agreed :)
Take care,
Sudip
Like Anisah mentioned, rituals have become, well, ritual, with their original purpose lost to thousands of years of misinterpretation. It's only going to get worse unless you break the mould and shout! So good going...
Of course, PMS is always a convenient excuse when things go wrong!
WOW !!!
the post expresses my feelings exactly. but there are so many other things in indian (not just hindu) culture that subtly try to put down women. one way or another. Damn this patriarchal society!
but Anisah's comment just blew me away... i had no inkling of all these practices she says were part of our culture...
We are so powerful and full of a special energy at this time that men can generally not handle it.
Wow!!! i'll definitely keep that in mind the next time, the monthly time comes around...:-)
i find my anger extremely hard to contain when i see people (other women included) using and abusing (isn't this time of menstrual seclusion a form of emotional abuse ?) women and not thinking twice about it.
and menstrual blood cannot be unclean... isn't it the same as the blood that comes during childbirth? so is the child supposed to be unclean as well?
nobody actually thinks of these things unless someone starts off a train of thoughts in this direction...
Kudos to you, megha... :-)
ALL HAIL FEMINISTS!!! :-)
ps- isn't time that women had their chance and society became matriarchal for a change?? ;-)
@anna:i cringe at any kind of "schism"... so all this 'hail feminists'-thingie doesnt really go down my throat either.
@megha: yes i do agree with u... ppl do behave weirdly around this. And that is sad becoz it is a biological fact rather than a social stigma.
But the obsession with "hinduism" -i cannot relate to. A social commentary, independent of the "hindu"-perspective wudda been more universal. Even muslims in india do not take to this very rationally...
& well i was forewarned so cannot complain... but yes, the language was a bit over-powering :)
hmmm.... my 21 years in India and this the first time I am hearing about this. This is no doubt insane. BTW in India... Kerala has a matriarchal structure.
If this is still happening in India then it aint gonna go anytime sooner, the uneducated dont know and the 99.99% educated dont care.
This entry looks like some extract from medival history... I am shocked to know that this is still happening... Its like the revelation that the India depicted in "The temple of doom" is the true India!!
but I must say Megha that you have a good chance in Indian politics... The article is very articulate and expressive.
@freaky chakra - The 'all hail feminists thing' was a bit overdone, i know. but i put it in, anyway.:-):-)
and not just muslims, even christians in india don't take to this very rationally. it is better than hindus but def a stigma is still attached.
@sridhar - kerala no longer has the matriarchal structure excpet in name.
and the reason why this is the first time you're hearing about this could be because you've never thought about or discussed it. it is a well discussed topic among girls in india, thats for sure...
@megha... forgot to say, Nice blog... :-)
i am absent minded...
Megha,
Wow.. what a post. I just admire your directness. Hats off!
Menstruation is a natural cycle and according to me, anything natural cannot be unclean.
When I was young, I never used to understand why Mom wont do some things on some days like pujas, going to temples or marriages etc. When I asked her once, she just did not answer and she looked at my dad as if I have asked something blasphemous.
But then, we had "health education" as a subject in school and I was surprised that my teacher (female) just skipped the whole chapter on Male and female sexuality.
Women of India suffer more because of their own upbringing (mostly by their mothers) than their husbands. I am always of the opinion "Sanction of the victim" is the only cause for anybody's suffering.
- Venkat
Once again, brilliant topic to pick.
Especially since its the 21st century and people are talking about empowerment of women etc, they dont realise that women were always powerful. They have the ultimate power of bringing a new life into this world and since their monthly period is related to that it should be dealt with appropriately. They should be allowed to chose as to whether the would like to go about their usual ways or 'sit it out' you never know, if there are housewives who follow this practice it might even be a welcomed break. Well thats what I thought
Tara
Hey,
I have a different take on this subject. Firstly we all agree that hinduism is in its composition not a monolith like the other relegions of the world. Its extremely diverse and polyethistic in nature. Thats why we say, its a way of life. So representing what a a fraction of hindu thoughts and their rituals isnt fair to be tainted with the whole of hinduism.
There are innumerable hindu traditions that have worship of godesses and consider sexual union or 'maithuna' as a sacred thing. Infact menstural blood has a sacred value in these societies. The whole cult of kali worship to which I proudly subscribe to, considers sex and sexuality as much a part of maya as food or yagna is.. They can or cannot contribute to one's spiritual growth as yagna or puja or bajhan can or cannot. It all depends on one's spiritual type and orientation.
But what you say is also very true, today just one strain of hindu thought influenced by victorian christian ideals has taken over hindu society and come to represent hinduism.
I have seen this even in my own home in the 80s and 90s. But the thing in India is the old ways are impractical and therefore are easily done away with... What I mean is, the old ways dont fit in the preasures of current reality esp in an urban setup.
What you see in many ways is NRI families over practicing some of these symbolic rituals because of an extreme sense of identity both in terms of their race and relegion.
very similar to the last time, I asked you to toss around a certain question.
Did you really toss it around ? Maybe you should do it. Hinduism is too vast a thing to be represented by a lone practice.
But i totally agree that this is deplorable and needs to end immediately.
POP: My mom who is almost 50 doesent practice this anymore... And she is mighty conservative..
vasu
WHOA!! Seclusion at home????? I sure didnt know that!! Everything else was pretty common knowledge except for this bullshit at home!!
And i completely endorse your views! Such ignorance and half-knowledge is the base for such dim-witted behaviour from supposedly-educated people!
It "was" there and still my granny use to shout on this. But once I asked her abt that "If God is against it and He will not let the human being have this process in one's body". But she is not convinced. But these are not followed these days and atleast few understand the science behind it. Women shud stay away from the house hold chores and take rest atleast on the 3 days". WE can stay that the conservative ppl still fooow it without knowing the actual reason and they will be still have the opinion that "God is responsible for a Kid's birth and not him" :). "Ellam kadavul kuduthathu".
sad, but still prevelant.
Oh boy ! Look at this punk - she's all set with a brand new controversy!
Ok, here's my take -
Firstly, I would like to re-emphasise on the fact that, 'all rituals in Hinduism have clear-cut meanings and well- defined explanations'. ALL rituals. It is just that the reasoning behind each has been simply lost over years and the facts distorted over
centuries. Every practise in Hinduism has an underlying significance. And the issue
that you have brought up is no exception.
Like as I said, there is a reason behind everything we do in Hinduism. A girl being secluded during her periods had logical explanations that date back to several thousand years. These explanations and practises may be seeming meaningless now, given
the current status of human civilization and scientific advancement.
What is considered 'unhygenic' today, was/is really unhygenic. You cannot deny that. More so then, because of the unavailability of sanitary accessories such as napkins. Passing urine and excreting the night soil - both can be controlled at your will and wish. Atleast, these actions can be consciously delayed. Can you do the same with the 'blood from uterus' ? This is an involuntary action. Needless to say, women
during those days, would never have known if they had a blood leakage, which would ultimately soil their clothes. This explains why they were 'confined to a room'. This also explains why they were 'not allowed' to enter sacred places. people do not urinate or excrete inside the temple unconsciously. But, there could have been instances(cannot rule out a possibility) when blood from uterus oozed out, WITHOUT a
woman's knowledge, when she was in public places. Hence, the 'practice of seclusion'
had highly positive motives - 'To prevent her from getting embarrassed', 'To honour
her womanhood' and 'To really tell the world, that a woman is special'. My rationale, along with WHATEVER was explained by ANISAH proves that Hinduism had/has/will always have the highest regard and respect for a woman, compared to any other religion.
It is quite true that people have deliberately contaminated/modified the truest purpose of these practises over tens of thousands of years, to suit their needs. You
could term it 'exploitation of women' or 'male chauvinism' or both or something else too.
Hinduism was formulated for the welfare of the people. It can only be read and spread. Cannot be re-written. If you feel something is wrong about it, don't blame the religion. Blame the people. Blame your comprehension. Go back in time and dig deep -
Am sure you will find ONLY FAVOURABLE answers :)
Though not comprehensive, I have a doc containing FAQs on Indian rituals. If you are interested, please feel free to touch base with me -
ibmguru@rediffmail.com
Cheers !
@ vasu the terrible
your mom prob doesn't need to have to practice seclusion anymore...
get my drift ?
women are definitely being put down all over the globe. but i have to admit i agree with guru - 'Hinduism had/has/will always have the highest regard and respect for a woman, compared to any other religion.
*Meant to be a document on Hindu rituals and not Indian rituals.
I stand enlightened. I did not have much knowledge of this. You are right. Logically, it makes no sense at all. One has to go to the root cause and probe how this ritual was started and with what perspective and motive. Things like caste system and even the education system are completely different from what was originally envisaged. So who knows, in this case what the original issue was how it got distorted over time. On the face ot it, it does seem fallacious.
@Nayan: Yes Nayan idiotic practices and absolutely meaningless.
@Anisah: Welcome to the turf!
I do know that women have been originally secluded, to 'REST' about a few thousand years ago. Unfortunately my post deals with the here and now, and women being secluded now makes no sense whatsoever.
@Sudip: :)...!
@ Jim: Thanks!
@ Anna: Thanks! and join the turf mate!
@ Freaky Chakra: The reason Im focusing on Hinduism is because since I am a Hindu,I have a better and a first hand knowledge of Hindu practices. I did think about making it more diverse, but I didnt quite know and all my Muslim or Christian friends happily used to go to their Church or their Mosque irrespective of their period. So I dont have a first hand knowledge of any seclusion when it came to other religions.
And please the word "obsession" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Im talking about some of the evil practices prevalent in my religion.....that is anything but "obsession".
@Sridhar: You wouldnt have known about it because your mom would have hidden it very cleverly from you. Any try talking to her about it and see the reaction you get....it wont be pretty....:P
@ Venkat: Thanks! And sex education in Indian schools is a joke! Do they even have sex education?
@Tawy: Join the turf! I know. There should be a choice, a conscious choice.
@Vasu: Hear! Hear!......:)
@Vikram: Sadly Vikram this exists. try talking to your mom about it and just look at her reaction....:)
this is one post that i ve read which has expressed my thought process verbatim, I seriouly cant believe how contadictory and illogical hindu customs are... it beats me
but what i dont understand is WHY THE HELL do women not question these dim witted practices???? why do they just accept them???? the women are equally responsible in making the society patriarchical.
@ Reflex: Yes! These silly practices come from ignorance! Ask them to explain one action and the answer is "Ellam Kadavul Kuduthadhu" or something lame and generic like that.
@antickpix: yeap!
@Guru: Well Guru, I knew as well as you did, that this practice was started because, women used to get weak and it was more a form of rest and yes, women used to use cloth and it was not very hygenic. But not every SINGLE woman drips blood everywhere Guru. And this is the 21st century. Most women DO not use cloth anymore, our, for want of a better word.."Sanitary" technology has improved by leaps and bounds. And nobody implements this ritual as a 'rest' for three days anymore. A lot of women self inflict this on themselves because they 'feel' unsanitary, and a lot of older women inflict this on younger women whether they want it or not.
And as for REST, I think the woman of today can handle it pretty well. None of us girls took voluntary holidays from school for four days every month and we pretty much did what we used to do normally.And taking off for four days every month is not practical anymore and nobody does that. This taking REST crops up only for temple outings, when people vehemently ban girls from going. As for voluntarily controlling other actions.....I repeat NO GIRL walks around dripping blood everywhere anymore. This monthly period is just as natural as excreting or urinating. And why I made a comparison was because our periods are considered 'dirty'. If you are going to use the word unclean then these actions are unclean too.
And my post was only on this silly ritual and this ritual ONLY, not on HINDUISM as a whole,so please do not confuse. This ritual in Hinduism might have had a noble beginning but it is ANYTHING BUT NOBLE today and it is sadistic and ridiculous.
ha ha ha.. well said, megha...
NO GIRL walks around dripping blood everywhere anymore.
i don't think they ever did drip... i think most girls/women are esp conscious about themselves during their periods..
@Anon: Please read the post again. IT IS NOT ABOUT HINDUISM. It is about this baseless, dim witted practice in Hinduism.
@ Hiren: Thanks Hiren...I try:).
@ Susmita: Yes Susmita, my thought process exactly. This practice has no meaning or praticality for the woman of today! nobody uses a peice of cloth anymore, and no woman gets so WEAK as to be bed ridden. And women consciously have to change this in themselves. like I said these baseless rules were contracted by men, and followed blindly over the ages by women. And welcome to the turf!
Yeah Anna! Women are wayyyyyy more careful during their period about "dripping" accidents!!!
:)
Megha
Susan Boulet - Skywatcher.
Susan Boulet's works are characterized by the use of color applied in layers. She mainly draws inspiration from spiritual traditions, mythology, nature and fairytales.
Really nice pic, I must say!
I love Susan Boulet's works! Skywatcher is one of my favs but my absolute favs are "Gaia" and "shield of the north".....by her. :)
Megha
.. and yeah, I agree its a sad tradition and a very blog-worthy topic.
Here's my grandfather's take on it: He says that the seclusion is actually a blessing in disguise for the woman who's been working all month. Now she doesn't have to cook, serve or welcome guests. This is her 3 day recess from her duties as a housewife.
when u find time try to read DaVinci Code by Brown Dan ... unless u already have ... u'll understand that across all religions be it christianity, islam or hinduism therz been a perennial fear men have had & have over women for eons :), so unfortunate most women still choose not to understand this
as for customs as in temples n stuff, we tend to follow whats convenient for us n go agains't that which doesn't suit us, human nature!!! Don't get irate over it, n over people who do follow it. Let them be and be urself, go on to change things in ur small world, a step at a time ;). Change is never welcome, but is the only constant.
ur too quick in blaming it on men, is it always this way with feminists? there are a whole variety of people today, some who understand women and then of course MSP's :)
n u tend to write very biased posts, I'd compare ur post with sun tv's dramatization of KK's arrest, or tony gregs over tendulkar ;)
cheers
The whole rest/swooning thing may also have to do (only a teeny bit. i do know a bit of biology) with conditioning.
The problem is, though men 'formulate' the rules, it's also been indoctrined (to an extent) into people (m and w) down the generations. Anyone choosing to question it now is either a. blasphemer b. young, arrogant etc. or c. a provocateur.
I don't think each and every ritual in Hinduism is worth it. And it isn't a very effective argument to say that the religion is pure, but the people are corrupt. People practise religion, and hence they are the religion. And no point comparing religions as though it's an excuse. Yeah, our religion does oppress women, but not as much as the other one. So we're ok.
@ Samy: The last time I checked I mentioned that it is started by men, BUT WOMEN perpetuate this generation after generation, blindly. So instead of accusing me of being biased, maybe you should get your facts straight and ACTUALLY READ THE POST with your eyes open.
@ antickpix: Every organised religion has its pitfalls. Im aware of that. But as far as THIS particular ritual is concerned, it is ridiculous and baseless. Im not arguing about the basis of HINDUISM or anything like that. I am only and I repeat ONLY talking about this degrading ritual.
megha....rock star...wat a drift...from where to where....this post is fukin volatile...OMG...
i never knew that menstrual cycle has been taken so serious in hindu relegion..i wasn`t aware...thanks for enlightenin ..
i am damn sure that our ancestors(hindu) are fukin jobless and i really dont know why did they pick women for all the experiments...
i still cant understand why they are confined to a room when they are on their chums....taboo...
Once i got thrashed by my sis(cosuin) when i was explorin pads..i was very young..she didn`t explain a damn thin.....but i guess most of the gals in india are very uncomfortable when a guy talk abt CHUMS..dont know why...
but when a gal attains her puberty they celebrate like an independence day...they use her like a doll....
i guess u also had an experience bein celebrated as a rock star on the day u attained puberty..
but i like the way u drift ur post....i meant the subject..
keep it rollin...
soon we can expect abt IMMUNOLOGY AND BIRD FLU....lol
ya u r right, "obsessiobn" is a strong word to use. But i rolled with it for the want of a better word to use... so sorry if it left a bad taste with u :)
i forgot somethin...nice pic gal..it goes with the post...10 on 10 ..for the pic..
@Megha... I guess u r right. Now that I think of the times when she never entered the kitchen, never touched anyone... Ah I had been so naive, and yeah I got the weird "You will know when you grow up" reaction everytime, I just took it was one of those things like "Dont spill salt" or "Making noises with scissors cause fights" thingies.... This is horrible. But one thing am sure is that no one forced her to do that so men (we the people :P) cant do much if you wanna do it yourself.
I feel this thing has its root in the horrible caste system of india, We need a egalitarian society... your post broke my illusion abt equality of men and women.
On the brighter side my mom said I'll know when I grew up... that proves I've grown up. Now I just have to stop watching cartoon network :P
Regarding your take on antipix, I truly agree. You can never ship a software without bugs. Be it relegion or government a bit of corruption and pitfalls are necessary (defined as playing outside the rules). Dogs are always needed to control sheeps. The catch being the that the shepherd who controls the dog is not corrupt.
PS: No offence but men are smarter than women (its scientifically proven :P). If it makes you feel any better, women have better short term memory(estrogen causes a lot of neurogenisis in the hippocampal area)... that explains why we have patriarchal structure in most cultures without having a masculinist (thats not even a word) and females remember every single thing that was done to them... hence the feminists :P so I guess even if the balance was restored and every one was treated equally, down the lane, they will converge to the same point again. Both genders have their own advantages which are not comparable. If a female stands for herself(which most of them dont), against her dad, husband, lover or brother... there is nothing much they(males) can do.
Do you know that a lot of theories made on the human brain are just that THEORIES. Humans still do not know what 60% of the brain is used for. So as far as the laughable "Men are smarter than women: this is scientifically proven" crap.... it was formulated by an egotistic patiriarchal MAN who spewed forth, baseless sexist 'theories' and slapped a "Scientifically proven" TAG on it, by the sheer will of political clout.
What TRIPE people spew forth these days.
megha...
sad to say...
you've got the spelling wrong...
its menstruation not menstruration
thanks but I type really fast....and I am pretty busy so I dont have time to check spellings.
will do next time.
"If the glove dont fit, its full of shit" The defense walks in to some blaring music with the same title.
The defense:
Entry to temples and religious places: The concept is of being clean, people who did not bathe are not clean and hence would not be allowed in temples and well during her menses a woman would be tainted by vaginal discharge and hence would be considered unclean.
I once knew of a friend who was very keen on doing the temple poojas and the kinds but the poor chap had a problem of uncontrollable dribbling of urine and to enter the sanctum sanctorum one should be 'suci' or clean and he could not do it because of the same rule that forbid women from entering. (The poor chap never got about to doing it because of his illness...)
The same rule probably extends to all religious activities but i am not sure about scritural injuctions on talking to women etc but im sure its some misinterpretation just as the caste system got messed up down the road.
"If a natural physiological process like mernache or menstruation is 'sinful', what about other processes like deficating, urinating and sweating?"
Sweatin aint a crime (don ask me why) but if u have urinated or defecated then you have to bathe before entering the temple technically. But the problem here is there'd be no proof of it post event and u cant say a person bathe after the event or not. Either case its a moral issue for the person. He/She might feel as clean as they get after their abulutions and so might not feel inhibited from entering a temple etc.
As for "condemned as a sin and the poor woman is thrown into seclusion" might also serve to rest an overworked woman during the period and might have been the intention in the earlier times. I am sure it is not comdemned as a sin and i've never heard of the seclusion bit but if true it could be possible that women would be physiologically under duress during the period and resting them seems good sense.
It is not that "menstruation is 'dirty' or 'filthy'" the concept is of the discharge. As with defecating and urinating, perfectly biological process but then the waste is considered filty and the person by virtue of having come in contact with it during the process cleans himself up by bathing. After all cleanliness is that thing close to godliness eh? Besides it would help prevent the transmission of various illness if ppl got about to just keeping clean esp those transmitted feco-orally
And in a lighter vein, women should really stop blaming PMS for eveything under the sun, before it comes about its PMS, during it also balme it on the monthly cycles and even if ur not on it who the hell knows blame it on the best excuse about!
Have a nice day
regards
g
--
http://g-thisisme.blogspirit.com
Well menstruation is a PERFECTLY natural process too. The only reason you havent heard of seclusion is because you are a man. Plain and simple. Indian women go to great lengths to cover things up in front of men esp when they are menstruating. Not that Im saying that you should announce it to the world, but all Im saying is that treat it as a natural process too. Cos' it is. As for "Cleanliness" and all that hogwash, this is not dirty. Women bathe more frequently albeit several times a day during their period.
That is the point of this post.To show that the process of menstruation is natural, and it is NOT dirty.
For everyone:
Please stop quoting from eons ago that this was done as a way to "preserve cleanliness", "to rest", "for rejuvenation", "to dispel bad energy" etc etc and all that tripe.
The thought was NOBLE, BUT it has been LOST over the ages. The point is about the here and now. Why women are being secluded against their wishes, why women resort to pill popping to put away their period, why women generation after generation follow this baseless convention and implement it and last but not the least the horrendous effect it has on body images of a woman. Because of this ridiculous practice women feel that their body is 'dirty' or 'filthy'. This I repeat, has been started by MEN and perpetuated by WOMEN through the ages, blindly.
Women are perfectly capable of handling their daily affairs during their period. Case in point: Do any of you guys know when your mom is having her period? Is she admitted to the hospital every month for four days? Is she bed ridden? I dont think so.
She would seem pretty normal, except maybe for mood swings and strange behaviour when it comes to praying and stuff.
So please get rid of this STIGMA once and for all.
And one more thing G, I dont think women walk around dripping blood. Our "Sanitary" technology has improved by leaps and bounds.
As for your friend, he had a geniune problem, to compare his problem with a natural process like menstruating is ridiculous.
:)
cheers!
Megha
Why is everyone so obsessed with DRIPPING?
and i really think after a whole post and such a long discussion on it, people- more importantly- guys would actually believe that menstrual seclusion was and is a real and happening situation in India...
WHOA! I didn't have even the slightest bit of idea regarding this!!! I mean, I've NEVER heard of such a ridiculous thing before. This just makes an atheist like me hate religions and beliefs even more. I mean, what the hell?! If this practice does not strike as the most illogical and dangerous idea possible then the people who still follow it are probably slightly disabled, mentally, I mean. I remember hearing some stuff of this sort about 5 years back when I was 12, I guess. There was this girl in my class who was telling that her sister was forbidden to go to temple...I couldn't ask the reason because just at that very moment, the teacher came. I dunno why but I still remember this. Maybe it had something to with this dumb ritual.....? It's totally insane, especially when educated women don't protest against it, just like the practice of female foeticide. The women who do it are also educated...but it's just that education doesn't make them any less illogical or dumb.
*Sigh* This world's still in the Dark Ages.
abt the article:-
Foolish foolish foolish pill popping females!!!
:-( sadness!!!
@ Anna:
Makes you wanna tear your hair out in exasperation doesn't it?????
And they are educated too!!!!!
*SIGH*
Megha
@Megha:"Do you know that a lot of theories made on the human brain are just that THEORIES. Humans still do not know what 60% of the brain is used for. So as far as the laughable "Men are smarter than women: this is scientifically proven" crap.... "
What is the basis of this statement of yours. I work on this stuff and there is nothing crap or political about it. We dont know what 60% of the brain does, but we darn well know about the 40%. Dont be irrational, if you are a feminist, be objective about it. Axiomatic theories can be laughed at but not the emperically proven ones. even if this is a crap proven scientifically... it doesnt mean it is wrong, just that it is a bitter truth.
"it was formulated by an egotistic patiriarchal MAN who spewed forth, baseless sexist 'theories' and slapped a "Scientifically proven" TAG on it, by the sheer will of political clout."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4183166.stm
This is not a finding of some sexist guy who just came out of a theory from no where, its a well researched subject. All I said was that men are smarter (have higher IQ) than women... I did not say that they are better human beings...
Lastly how different are you from men, you are prejudiced towards science and they(perhaps we) towards women. Please do some research before slapping that allegation onto "MEN". I am not a MCP... just an objective thinker.
PS: No offence meant
Objective?
Is stating that a “CLAIM” is PROOF objective?
Look at the title of the article in question: “'Men cleverer than women:claim”
Again Im quoting directly from the article : “Academics in the UK claim their research shows that men are more intelligent than women.”
There have been several “Claims” albeit “theories” over the ages deriding women’s intelligence. Women were considered too dumb to vote, to receive EDUCATION, or even DRIVE, mundane things which are taken for granted today. And these “claims” were made not too long ago, in the 18th century. Ummm……so considering all that and how far we have come… don’t you think we deserve a bit better than that? Talking about women in sciences do you know that the presidents of MIT and Princeton, respectively Susan Hockfield(neuroscientist,speciality:brain and cognitive science) and Shirley M. Tilghman(molecular biologist) are women?
Women have faced oppression over the ages, constantly facing walls in their advancement fighting for basic education, because their so called ‘place’ was in the home. You can conduct any search on gender and education in the 16th, 17th and 18th century and you will see that women were not considered fit enough for even BASIC education.
With these pathetic conditions, there were some pathbreakers who dared to face the oppression and break into the world of education and more notably tried to break into the strictly MALE dominated and MALE decreed world of science. Marie Curie being the obvious example, I am also going to give some examples in history which you wouldn’t have heard of.
Sofia Kovalevskia:(brilliance in mathematics): In 1870 she was denied entrance to the University of Berlin because she was a woman, but continued to study mathematics privately. Because of her brilliance in her published work, she succeeded in receiving a PhD from the University of Gottegen. For all her brilliance Kovalevskia was refused an academic position for the simple fact that she was a WOMAN. She was forced to teach elementary school girls to make ends meet.
After much pleading and several attempts at admission she finally became the first woman to hold a professorship and membership in the Academy of Sciences in St. Petersburg, Russia. Ultimately she obtained a position with the University of Stockholm, despite the following editorial written when she applied for the position at Stockholm:
“As decidedly as that 2+2=4, what a monstrosity is a woman who is a professor of mathematics, and how unnecessary, injurious and out of place she is.” Her sceintific legacy consists of 9 papers: 3 of pure mathematics, 1 on celestial mechanics, 2 on the physics of crystals, and 3 on the classical mechanics of rigis body rotation. She is the first person to propse time as a complex variable. "Kovalavskaya's case" is named for her: a solution for the motion of a heavy rigid body about a fixed point. This is actually the first theoretical approach to the problem of precession. She therefore demonstrated that pure mathematics also applied to mechanical and physical problems. The Paris Academy of Sciences awareded her Borden's Prize for this work.
Emmy Noether (1882 - 1935): In 1935, the year of Emmy Noether's death, Albert Einstein wrote in a letter to the New York Times, "In the judgement of the most competent living mathematicians, Fraulein Noether was the most significant creative mathematical genius thus far produced since the higher education of women began." Born in 1882 in Germany, Emmy Noether persisted in the face of tremendous obstacles to become one of the greatest algebraists of this century.
Known primarily for her profound and beautiful theorems in ring theory, Emmy Noether's most significant achievement runs deeper: she changed the way mathematicians think about their subject. "She taught us to think in simple, and thus general, terms... homomorphic image, the group or ring with operators, the ideal... and not in complicated algebraic calculations," said her colleague P.S. Alexandroff during a memorial service after her death. In this way, she cleared a path toward the discovery of new algebraic patterns that had previously been obscured.
Despite her intellectual achievements and the recognition of such mathematicians as David Hilbert and Hermann Weyl, Emmy Noether endured years of poor treatment by German universities, where for a time she could not even lecture under her own name. Weyl later wrote that, even when the Nazis prevented her from lecturing, "her courage, her frankness, her unconcern about her own fate, her conciliatory spirit, were, in the midst of all the hatred and meanness, despair and sorrow... a moral solace." Forced out of Germany by the Nazis in 1933, Emmy Noether came to Bryn Mawr College, where she soon collected many students and colleagues around her. She died there just two years later at the age of fifty-three.
MY POINT IS women through the years have been mentally repressed and physically opressed and it is foolishness to attribute it to genetics. It will be a while until women and the education system breaks out of a certian mould of subtle sexism.
And as for being biased towards science, let me tell you a bit about myself.
I am a double major in Human immunobiology and Human Nutrition. I am done with my immunobio bachelors and I have two classes left in Human nutrition. I am also taking masters classes in Molecular nutrition and immunology.
Im not showing off here. Nor am I putting you down. I have great respect for what you do and a lot of my cousins are into software so I have high regards for the subject. I am just telling you what I do because The fact that you said that I am biased towards science is laughable.
If I am biased towards Sexist "claims" which hide under the TAG "research studies" then so be it.
I know my last comment was extremely long.
But let us stop bringing gender wars into this comments page. There may be a future post which deals with that and we can hold it until then.
My post deals with the representation of menstruation as a stigma in Hindu culture.
I would be happy if we could stick to that instead of having "men better than women; Women superior to men" discussions.
cheers!
Megha
This practise is an identity that we ve chosen for ourselves, gods never advocated this practise .
Note that lord narasimha has goddess lakshmi on his lap ,so tht clearly rules out any possible discrimination made.
megha ..ur comment page has become a warfield..so try to maintain peace..NO GENDER WARS...
@anisah: your post makes lots of sense.
Every hindu ritual has a reason, we need 2 dig it out & validate it to current scenario. If not applicable chuck it off.
mad women who pop pills...even more insane guys who force her into that situation...they should be shot in a very tender place!!!great blog...u write well!!!
@suryakannan: That is my point exactly! I have nothing against the religion, it is the people who spread this stigma.
@Yuvraj: Yes! Hence the comment(scroll up and see):
[I know my last comment was extremely long.
But let us stop bringing gender wars into this comments page. There may be a future post which deals with that and we can hold it until then.
My post deals with the representation of menstruation as a stigma in Hindu culture.
I would be happy if we could stick to that instead of having "men better than women; Women superior to men" discussions.]
Gender wars can be reserved for another post, maybe.
thanks Yuvraj....you projected my thoughts exactly!
And actually, I never had a "HUGE" celebration when I contracted my mernache, my parents thankfully skipped that and it was pretty much a normal affair. I have to mention my parents are very liberal.
@ Tenali: like I said, the thoughts are noble, but it is not applicable today.
@ Nina:Thank you Nina! Unfortunately these women are 'educated'....and guys instead of acting like it doesnt exist should address it with their wives/moms/sisters and make them feel comfortable about it....and dispel that 'dirty' feeling......but it seems like a utopian ideal though...*SIGH*
Hinduism like any religion or old institution for that matter was developed by people who had nothing more worthwhile to do... These mostly consisted of chauvinistic men... Religion is full of crap, and all religions are chauvinistic, irrational, discriminatory and essentially stupid... Every religion is based on a my god is better than your god ideal or in the case of hinduism, my gods are better than your god... the only exception i can think of is Buddhism... One of the oldest religions, Judaism is based on considering themselves The Chosen Race Of God.. Honestly, you shouldn't really be surprised by this, it's what you should come to expect when you follow an idea that became obsolete the moment people became intelligent enough and had enough leisure time to think for themselves... Essentially, menstruation is taboo because of lack of knowledge... and nobody's gonna talk about it because it's "different" and in a conformist society like ours anybody different isn't allowed to live in peace... and Religion is the biggest authority when it comes to condemning non-conformity..
Think for yourself
Question authority
Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening,
terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in
this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities, the political, the
religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by
giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their
view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and
learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open-mindedness;
chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself.
Think for yourself.
Question authority.
- Timothy Leary
This doesn't have much to do with the issue of menstruation, but i'm bored...
Oh, and While it's not true that men are smarter or have higher IQs, it is true that women are more biased against science and more likely to have faith.. Men have better motor skills and reflexes and their minds work more on the basis of thoughts and logic while women give priority to feelings and emotions... This is fact, it's just the way we're wired... Face it, we're different, anyone saying that there's no idfference b/w men and women is just ignorant..
P.S : Feminism is just a pretty word for Female Chauvinism.. :P
@ Negative creep:
Feminism is not a pretty word for female chauvunism...let me define it for you:
"Feminism is an ideal that men and women should be equal, politically, economically, and socially.”
While male chavunism is stating that men are superior which is quite contrary to feminism.
so get your facts straight.
And as for your "Hindutva" statements...I curse all religions equally. DID you even read this post?
Every organised religion has its pitfalls. But I am a Hindu and Im not ashamed to say that I love my religion even thought there are a million deep rooted evils in Hinduism. If youre going to call me "fundamentalist" because of this then I dont give a fuck.
But these are my views and if you find them offensive....piss off. This is my blog. Not yours.
//But these are my views and if you find them offensive....piss off.//
On the contrary, it's YOU who find my comments offensive. I find your posts interesting and i'm expressing my take on it that's all. and i'd like you to point out where i've commented on Hindutva on "THIS" post.
And it's quite easy to pick up a dictionary and rattle off what's written. What i meant is the practical meaning of Feminism as it is today. The feminist movement today is nothing but political fodder and publicity stunts, and is essentially turning regressive. Feminists find great joy in male bashing and professing the superiority of their sex, yet let the real issues go by. I'm not talking about you, obviously you're actually focussing on certain issues. I was just commenting in general. We seem to have gotten off on the wrong foot here. I tend to piss people off a lot.. How about a fresh start?
Hi, i'm Bhanuj.
I guess we have.
hi Bhanuj, Im Megha:)
So, now that the existence of the problem is established, what is the solution?...i know education and awareness and all...but mebbe a more quick and immediate solution, like some incentive for ppl to change quickly or say for schools to practice better sex education...i ll report back if a creative one comes to mind..
btw..nice blog and well written..
gr8! Holla back if a creative option comes to mind....sex education would be obvious....but a lot of schools in India are still prudish...hmmm......
and thanks and welcome to the turf!
Megha
wow...that was a quick reply
so you re an online punkster....
i have a friend doing media journalism in india..lets see what the media itself thinks...being on TV is a good incentive and a good medium too...
Those windowless rooms where they used to seclude women.
Did you know they are allowed to shower on those 3 days!!!
Inhuman torture.........
I know...Ive also heard stories where groups of women were given the same peice of cloth to share between them in their seclusion......apart from the illtreatment.....look at the dangerous health hazards...shocking.
and welcome to the turf Tilo!
u have a valid point as usual, megha...
*bullseye*
" But I am a Hindu and Im not ashamed to say that I love my religion even thought there are a million deep rooted evils in Hinduism. "
BRAVO! Go Megha! You rock!
----
I really think meg it comes to the issue of cleanliness, as much as science has advanced in feminine hygiene products (Thank you for reminding me on that one :p ) it still remains a receptacle for body fluid discharge and one which is in use. No one said anything about dripping endothelium or blood and what not (@impressed). The point is that 'it' is unclean (not the person) when it is shed out. The analogy (bout a freind with a medical problem) was that any body secretion is impure when it is shed externally and comes in contact with the person he/she becomes unclean.
As for knowing it is an issue, yes thank you for raisin my awareness that it exsists, but then the only men that need take a stand are the ones that impose the stupid rules anyways! But for the record I think it is riduculous, about as ridiculous as shootin men on their tender spot (@nina) because of thier views !
But at the same time I would like to say that as for this being an issue with Hindus I'm not even sure if it is in the scriptures. In time a lot of it has been lost and rules and regulations twisted out of context. I was wondering if anyone knew the scriptural injuctions if they exisisted to start with. And really each time anyone says hindusim this and hinduism that could they please quote shastra and not hearsay...
----
@neg creep "Hinduism like any religion or old institution for that matter was developed by people who had nothing more worthwhile to do"
How 'bout i prove it otherwise to you some time bro.. holla when u got the time
---
All in all a very nicely written and thought provokin post..have a nice day
regards
g
--
http://g-thisisme.blogspirit.com
@Anon
//but then the only men that need take a stand are the ones that impose the stupid rules anyways!//
Isn't that a little escapist of you? Not to mention, it's hardly reasonable to expect the guilty party to stand up for the victim's rights... If we wait for the Taliban, and the VHP to take a stand against their own intolerant, narrow-minded, regressive moral policing and fundamentalist idologies, well we can wait for eternity can't we??
And i'd love to discuss religion and hinduism with you, after my exams. Let me just state my opinion on religion. Any institutions that imposes thier own set of rules or ideology on their followers without having to constantly justify the reason for those rules is fundamentally wrong. And an institution which instead of encouraging discussion, absolutely prohibits it is undoubtedly wrong. I don't care how religion started, i'm sure most religions start as a way of inspiring people to do good and ensuring that they do what is morally right, and they had good intentions, but those intentions are lost... Instead, religion now inhibits human progress in every field, be it science, art, even basic human rights.. the basic tenet of religion is to follow blindly, to never question, to behave like sheep... Priests call themselves sheperds of their flock... Their folowers are supposed to be like sheep, naive, easily manipulated, stupid... Religion opposes change... It violates EVERY fundamental principle that makes us human, teaches us that we are nothing special, humiliates us, insults us and we kill for religion... It makes me want to hate myself for belonging to a species stupid as ours...
This is an institution whose foundation is FAITH. Faith allows no reasoning, gives no justifications, leaves no room for doubt... Believing in something is good, but everytime someone asks you to put your faith in them, there's a good chance they're gonna fuck you over... Besides all this, Religion has barely evolved ever since it developed... The minute a religion becomes institutionalised and the parasitic priests and theologicians take over it, it becomes another tool of oppression...
I can just go on and on.. But not right now, got my exams coming up... will discuss this later...
hey!
i dint read beyond 10 comments, so pl. ignore me if i've repeated stuff. With 67 comments it is likely to happen! :)
BUT
The reason I'm talking more than my usual line or two here, is because i've asked these questions and arrived at some answers. SOME.
The whole seclusion thing was arrived, surprise, in favour of the woman.
The initial idea was to spare the woman some time from her wretched- never- ending chores by the fireside, to legitimise a 'holiday' for someone who has, otherwise, no hope in hell of taking time off for herself.
I'm not so sure it was time for the women to sororise in a menstrual hut as anisah has said.
Often, it is unlikely that too many women in the family coincided in their menstrual cycle.
However, Im convinced it was for, a time for the woman to be secluded, spend time with herself, like a kind of looking inward, as she was served food and drink in her isolated quarter.
It also meant much needed respite from forced sex, with which otherwise, they had little or no power of negotiation.
-- They were not allowed to go to temples --
My argument for this derives from what they use to keep women away from Sabarimala.
Going to the temples in the evening, after all the chores have been completed, was the norm. The only other time would be early morning (only for a 'venduthal' or when you had to go out of town).
And the only means of getting there was on foot. If temples were a little distance away from the village or one had to cross dense shrubbery to get there, then the logic is that semi-predators (!) would smell the scent of blood of a menstruating woman. Making it unsafe for the woman and possibly, her mostly female companions.
Another reason, the temples, in those days, were more like social meeting grounds. Which means interaction with a number of people - something a woman experiencing PMD might not fancy (I for one cannot stand company sometimes).
THAT SAID, I also agree wholeheartedly that the entire issue has become like a mock of it's original, subverting the lofty ideals for which it was conceived to mock, harass and demoralise the woman.
Sigh! they always find a way to do that, eh?
ramya
meg
i also meant to say, great you wrote this post. :)
cheers!
ramya
@ramya,
Often, it is unlikely that too many women in the family coincided in their menstrual cycle.
For a lot of my life i have been in hostel, and this may not be a scientifically proven fact, but its something i've observed as very common...
most women who spend a lot of time together, tend to menstruate at the same time.. i know its in no way related to the topic, but its an intersting fact... my mom says its got somthing to do with the cycles of the moon...
have no clue if it is scientifically proven...
it is scientifically proven by the way...
just googled it...
http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&hs=76i&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&q=women+menstruating+at+the+same+time&spell=1
ciao...
u better start a forum or book a domain and get a server...it`s gettin crowded day by day.......and u should write a blog once u the comment count crosses 70...because many of them are usin google....wtf?
hey,
well, first thing, I appreciate u for expressing on this topic, that too it makes a lot of difference when it comes out of a 'woman'(i mean they hav the better knowledge on this issue)... well, there maybe arguments in the comment box, but that could only possibly increase the awareness on this issue than verbal duels...
its sad tat these practices are still around.... it all may hav started as an altogether different kinda perspective but wen the practices pass frm generation to generation, the true meaning and purpose gets skewed.... one more thing to add is tat people are always skeptical in talkin abt these issues and it is rather the ignorance of the true issues tat leads to the misconceptions n hence to these skewed type of rituals.... the bottomline is, in today's world, a greater and clearer awareness wud do a great deal of help n I am positive tat this post is one step towards it....
@ Ramya:
I know Ramya....the idea behind the seclusion was "rest" and "some time away from chores" but.....I know that it is obviously considered DIRTY today....I have heard a lot of people use the word dirty and filthy and assuming you have checked out the article it is obvious that the original reasons have been flushed down the toilet.
Like you said not unlike a lot of things in our society...the true meanings have been mangled and been made a mockery of and yet again they are used to control women in some way..........why.....
@ Anna: its true! I have 5 roomies and weirdly if one of us get it, the rest of us would follow in succession or at the same time....I always found it weird.........interesting link by the way.
Megha
First time. Great blog. Looked up on the profiles. Daft punk is one my alltime favourites. One more time we are gonna celebrate.
"The Hindu culture for all its greatness is chock full of contradictions. When a girl contracts her first menstruation cycle, the event is celebrated with all pomp and joy to represent her passage into womanhood. She is showered with gifts from all her relatives for this joyous occasion and YET month after month she is secluded for being 'unclean' and 'contaminated'. What is the meaning of this? "
Brilliant. There aren't many high-thinkers like you in the blogworld. Keep it up. Passionate. like it. Fell in love at first sight. Great site, again.
Hi there
First time on your blog and I like what I see.
I donot know if you count yourself as a feminist, I hope you dont because I believe ''pure'' feminists seem to view everything from the microsm of their narrow view point. Its like envoirmentalists pontificating without any concern for anything else e.g people' livlihood. Usually it results in crap like the bra burning period of sixties.
Coming back to your post, I have heard of seclusion in temples but I have not heard of it happening in homes. Was news to me. I donot know if this is as prevelant as you claim because I have never seen it happening in any families I know, though I dont exactly go and enquire whats happening inside their houses.
If it does happen, I cant imagine the logic of it. I think women need to get more comfortable with their own bodies and realize (and make others realize) there is absolutely nothing dirty about menstruation.
I went through some of the comments and someone mentioned that it was done to relieve women of their daily chores. I donot quite dig this logic because physically it does not impair a women's ability to work. It might have been the case before when things like sanitary pads did not exist. But surely not in this era. I find it kind of intersting when people cling to age old logic to justify things which have no meaning today. Look at purdah system, pre-Islam it was basically used by prostitutes so that they would not ''attract'' men. However, in a male dominated society it became an excuse to keep women covered to this age. And when Rushdie pointed this out in Satanic Verses he became the target for Mullahs.
I will be back and I would link you from my place.
later
If u r still awake!!!
http://autofeed.msn.co.in/pandorav3/output/News/a984b47d-31a5-4add-807a-eb6fe1466756.aspx
Hey Megha!!
Yet another well-written post! Flawless expression of what is in mind, I would say!!
Now that you have spoken, let me air my thoughts! I think the rituals of keeping away women doesnot happen nowadays, at least not in cities or towns. Some shanty town down south may be practicing it, and we could write it off as a voodoo practice or cult celebrations! I agree with you when you voice out the fact about cleanliness et al, yes, Women sometimes go to the extent of thinking very unclean about themselves during menstrual period and I have noticed some being very uncomfortable, with a sorry face too! (Not that I didn't have any other duty than looking at women's expressions!! But I just noticed it.. :) )
Keep writing!!
Cheers.....
hey! Very true and well said!! And to all those ppl who say.. does this still exist ??? Ofcourse!!!! I've seen it happening around me!! Gimme a break... most of my aunts carry those wierd and restricting notions till date!! I've seen most of my cousin sisters not entering the kitchen..being served seperately all the time!!! It sucks!! I was so glad that my dad had absolutely no takes on this issue!!!
Hey punk, I seriously think you deserve a break after this loooong and heated debate.
Do visit http://www.jilponks.blogspot.com/
A 'laugh riot' is waiting for you there !
:-D
anna,
thanks. interesting link. but i've no experience whatsoever of that occurence.
meg,
in case i've come off sounding like i support the system as it is (ref: ur reply), i have to say that i wholeheartedly object to the demeaning way women who are menstruating are still being treated in some households. there is no justifying that kind of repulsive behaviour at all.
cheers!
aw, that above was me.
ramya
Great post! My 2 cents-- The way women are treated during their cycles is ridiculous. I believe Orthodox Jewish women also have to be "different" during this time.
The reasons that these practices eveolved have been mentioned by others. However a big issue this agnostic progressive liberal has is with how religions and customs have not evolved always with time and progress. Resistance to change is not just institutional but also individual. It also speaks to the issue of power over women. It's for each one of us to do our bit to change it. I believe it will eventually work. It's a good fight cos a truly advanced progressive society will never be realized unless one of the most critical components of it which is women are treated equally.
OY! That was a long 2 cents. BTW I have a post about the "new rich" in India based on a NYTimes article. Comments flames welcome.
Karmic musings
@aragorn: thank you! :-)
@ confused: I am what you can call a neo- feminist :-), equality of the sexes is what I seek! Does that make you feel better.(I am definitely not one of those bra-burning women types:P)And thank for linking!!!
@ Reflex: thanks! Will check it out presently.
@ Venkat ramanan: Unfortunately it happens in the cities as well NOT only in villages....read the article Ive put in my post....very upsetting.
@ Deepti: Hear hear! :-)
@ guru: Thanks! I think I need it:)
@ Ramya: I was agreeing with you Ramya, not disagreeing!( god I sound cranky these days):P.....You had made a very valid point in the end :"THAT SAID, I also agree wholeheartedly that the entire issue has become like a mock of it's original, subverting the lofty ideals for which it was conceived to mock, harass and demoralise the woman.
Sigh! they always find a way to do that, eh?"
200% true!
Ugh I think I should "cover my face now" eh? Hee hee(you know what I mean:P)
@ Karmic_jay: thank you! And I completely agree! And sure Ill check your post out:)
Thanks Megha, I linked to your post on my blog too.
this is a loooooong discussion...
are you going to wait till 100 comments to post again ?
lol...
can't wait for another eye-opening, bold, interesting post...
:-)
@ karmic jay:
Thanks!
@ anna: soon.....*devilish grin*
Megha
off topic megha..u seem to read fast...i see u have some new books listed...
oh boy, I read nearly all the comments, and this looks like a battlefield now. where the topic has drifted frm seclusion to sex-bias. And finally there seems to be a peaceful(??) end to the 'battle'.
I don't think I have much to say about your post, since all of it would just be repetition of what has been said a thousand times. But it is extremely thoughtful and shall I say brave of you to bring up this topic, since as someone has already quoted above 'Indian women can to up to any lengths to hide their sexual events from men'.
looking forward to more of these interesting posts, because this was very a very expressive one
~Shayeri
i have been talkin on this to a lot of my friends. its womans's mind more against herself.
its been quite a few years since i have given a shit to these crappy practices... i light the morning/evenin diyas and have no qualms about going to temples on the day i am 'impure'. i believe that if at all there is a creator and he/she made us what we are, then i am sure he/she isnt stupid enough to bind us down with a flimsy 'impure' tag... more over its his/her design issue. and by the way how do these temple people ever get to know whether i am 'impure' or not?
recently i happened to hear that there is no written reference to the periods being impure in any of the major hindu texts, and that it was a very convenient(for whom,you know...) addition that was adopted from the Bible, which clearly states that the woman is impure and untouchable during those days.
megha...kudos for raising 'taboo' topics that most other girls may find 'difficult' to discuss...
Gah,I'm too late. All the good comments have already found their way in your comments page.
Funny how the word "late" may be construed in a totally different way,given the subject of this particular post.Just a random thought.
So since all the good comments have been taken I shall comment on things totally unrelated to the post.
For instance, I like the subtle changes you've made to your blogspot. A pop-up comments page,leading to a seperate page is definitely more convenient cos it allows us to refer back to the post while commenting.
Bringing up the links and blogroll towards to the top where everybody can view them and accordingly explore,rather than it being hidden at the bottom.
A more interesting profile. Clever choice of words,puts the message across. Although your profound revelations as to your sleeping habits and an odd reference to the snooze button on your alarm clock were equally fascinating.
What else? Cool banners.Definitely a more neat and organized look.Although a little too organized for a punkster, if you ask me :P
And finally I'm proud to contribute the 94th (?!?) comment.
I am a very organized person......I keep trying to make my blog look as clean as possible......so its kinda not too punkish.....I know but GAH! Occasional slip ups are allowed!
cheers!
Megha
wow, i came back to take a look and see if there were any more comments on this subject. it took me a while to get through them all!!! I'm new to this whole blogging thing. it's interesting how the thread of discussion changes. I just wanted to say, thanks to megha and to everyone who wrote. really thought provoking subject. :-)
Whoa- I had never encountered this heck even heard of this seclusion period prior to this post.
P'haps it is a predominantly south indian hindu ritual? Most of my South Indian friends were from Mumbai [Keralites]- I'm not sure if this is particularly a state thing or some sect observance. I'd like to know more if and when you have the time for it of course.
Secondly, I learnt that I shouldn't touch/enter/ all that nonsense during my period from friends and not my parents or family. Quite shocking at first but clearly not strictly observed in my family and for that I am grateful. What bullshit- this whole ritual and unclean mentality.
As far as I know the scriptures that are shruti do not mention this or give rise to such ideas. It makes me wonder where it all originated from within Hinduism as some other religions do have it specified in their texts.
Funny how perversification of women is done equally and in almost similar ways across different religious faiths [regardless of whether the scriptures do or don't mention the practices].
I wrote a short short paper on questioning this from an Abrahamic religions pov but was baffled as to how it entered 'Eastern' religions.
*Clap clap*
Point taken!
just fyi, how the whole thing started:
"Prohibitions regarding women's involvement in ritualistic worship during their menstrual cycle are implied throughout the scripture. At least this is how those who have formed lineages have interpreted sections of the scripture that discuss this period. The Bhagavata Purana for example attributes the menstrual cycle to one fourth the karmic reaction to Indra's inadvertent killing of a brahmana. According to that Purana, Indra killed a brahmana and was then chased by the karmic reaction to this killing. He then negotiated with four groups who each agreed to absorb one quarter of the reaction in exchange for a blessing. Women got the blessing that they could have sex during pregnancy without endangering the embryo in exchange for accepting the monthly menstrual cycle.
sasvat-kama-varenamhas turiyah jagrhuh striyah
rajo-rupena tasv amho masi masi pradrsyate (BP. 6.6.9)
It is also stated in this Purana that one should not eat food seen by a woman during her monthly period, bhunjitodakyaya drstam (BP. 6.18.49). You may also find something about this in Manu Samhita"
this is a wonderful post by you and i have to agree to what you have said and i wholeheartedly object to the way women who are menstruating are still being treated in some households. this kind of behavior cannot be justified and i think this post of your is a good start to let people know what is happening around us.
Every practice in Hinduism has a reason. Over time these reasons have either become distorted or forgotten. Based on the Vedas, any form of bodily excretement, ie sweat/puss/faeces/urine/blood is considered unclean. Naturally, you have to be clean when you enter a temple or prayer room. This is the main reason why women do not do pooja etc when they are menstruating. Of course other practices like seclusion..etc are purely social practices. If you are a Hindu, it's only right to follow the rules of your religion. Otherwise why follow a particular religion? There is no sense in adapting certain aspects of your religion and deeming others as unreasonable just because you don't agree with it. There is a very thin line between social and religious practices which causes alot of confusion and mockery amongst the younger generation these days.
If you are a Hindu, it's only right to follow the rules of your religion. Otherwise why follow a particular religion? There is no sense in adapting certain aspects of your religion and deeming others as unreasonable just because you don't agree with it.
so its right to follow all baseless meaningless sexist rules in the name of religion?
God, listen to yourself.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
I just came across your blog today, and am a fan already!
I really think that those people who are trying justify the barbaric practice in today's day and age are simply being contrary. There is no justification for being made untouchable for the rest of your family when you are 11 years old and cannot even plait your own hair. I had a classmate who went through this every month. She was Sikh, and of course had very long hair and no option of cutting it either. Her food would be thrown at her in an old aluminum plate and she wasn't even allowed to sleep on the bed! This was the most extreme case I have known personally, but there have been others I have known who are not allowed to enter the kitchen, and have to sit at the threshold of the kitchen where the meals are thrown onto their plates, while the rest of the family eats together inside. And people can still stand up and say that these things are meant to give a woman "rest" and are for her "benefit".
when i was 15 after some terrifying exams a few friends of mine decided to go to a temple to quickly tell god to make them pass.i was not going. i find temples boring if you don't even get some free prasad.
one of them asked me if i would stay out with her because she 'couldn't ' go in. i asked her the meaning of 'couldn't and she told me since she was chumming and you are not allowed to go in a mandir.
i remember showing the temple my midddle finger and telling her that these pre pubescent gods are so not for me...i rather felt like amitabh bacchan in deewar...
but drama aside...it STILL makes my blood boil
just got here via mad momma.
Wrote a post on the same and have linked up to you.
Just to let u know that it was I who linked up this post at Mad Mamma's blog for an ongoing war.
If you are getting flak for this, you can thank me for it. :)
Wishing u well.
cheers
Personally I'm surprised to even hear that such customs exist. My mother was brought up in a very liberal family and she never even mentioned anything like this ever. And I can be sure that it is not that it did happen and she didn't tell me. This is something that was a patriarchal addition to existing customs and it is high time such idiotic things were phased out.
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]