4/7/06

The unprolonged journey, from the womb to the tomb.

I am an Indian woman. Good. Now that we have established that point, I will also add that I’m glad to be alive.

Ten million girls have been wiped out in the last two decades in India. Unbelievable? Maybe. But nevertheless, run the number in your head a few times and let it sink in.

10,000,000. One followed by 7 zeroes. How I WISH this wasn’t true. But it is. So I should be thanking my lucky stars for being alive, shouldn’t I?

Time and again, I feel that the only mistake I’ve committed in my life is being born a woman. Since I am a woman, I’m a liability, I will not carry on the bloodline of the family (whatever the hell that means), I will not support my poor ailing parents when they are in the throes of their second childhood, and I am extremely ‘expensive’ (for want of a better word) because my poor parents will have to shell out excessive amounts of dowry for their cow daughter, and come to think of it I'll be better off as a man innit'?

Rest assured, my parents are nice folks and they do not subscribe to boorish views like the ones I've mentioned above. BUT, to the majority of Indian women, educated or otherwise, they dont have it so easy.

So what do you do, if you are faced with the errr........ 'burden' of giving birth to a girl? Pshaw! What an elementary question! Well, get rid of her of course! Use technology (foeticide) to discreetly do the deed if you belong to middle class families, or if you're not so lucky, give birth to the girl and then feed poison (infanticide) to the newborn baby! The dastardly deed is done!

So now that we have established that foeticide and infanticide ALONE has contributed to ten million girls being obliterated, and the sex ratio has successfully fallen steadily from 962 women to every 1000 boys in 1981, to 927 girls to every 1000 boys in 2002; has the horribly skewed sex ratio helped in actually improving the abhorrent status of women in India?

The answer is a big, fat, NO. Yet again, unscrupulous men are making a mockery of this gender disparity by trading women around as if they were commodities. Women are possessions remember? Now, the ever enterprising vermins in Haryana, where female foeticide and infanticide have reached unmitigated heights, are making use of the gender dissimilitude to propagate a thriving business in "sexual brides", and yes, you heard me right. Women are in great demand as the sex ratio in some parts of Haryana are as deplorable as 493 girls for every 1000 boys, so it is self-evident that a single woman can be bought and sold MANY times.

Case in point: the story of Tanu *name changed*. Belonging to a poor family (in Haryana), AND being fairly goodlooking was her downfall. She was sold for a paltry five thousand rupees at the age of 16 to a dubious looking middle aged swine, who 'promised' to marry her. To no ones surprise, he raped her repeatedly and sold her for twenty thusand rupees and patted himself on the back for making a good 'profit'. But Tanu's horrific travails did not end there. Oh no it didnt. She was taken to Rajasthan where she was 'shared' between three brothers, and when she overheard one of them talking about selling her off yet again, she grew desperate and fled. But how far could a fleeing girl travel alone with no money or possessions, in a place alien to her?
Not very far, as the impotent beasts ganged up on her, raped her, and beat her senselessly until her body resembled a bloody mass of flesh and bones.

As I sat listening to this harrowing tale narrated to me by our Shanthi-bai in India, I could see the tears running down her face and I gingerly asked her if she knew Tanu. I sat there praying and wishing with all my heart, that the answer would be in the negative, but alas my fears bore fruit. Tanu was her sister.

Numerous other cases of "sexual brides" have been reported, and some of these girls are no older than fifteen. Sadly, this trafficking has not diminished albeit the demand for brides has only increased; resulting in smuggling girls, living in abject poverty ridden conditions to seemingly richer states like Punjab or Haryana where the sex ratio is conspicuously skewed.

And now do you finally see how female foeticide and infanticide is directly linked to the appalling business of trafficking "sexual brides"? If you still feign ignorance, please go crawl back under the rock you slithered out from.

Now this brings us to this ludicrous article by Caitlin Moran.

Here is an excerpt:

Abortion in India is legal. If Indian, or indeed any, women are entitled to have an abortion because they don’t want to have a child at all, why shouldn’t they be allowed to have an abortion because they don’t want to have a specific kind of child? Once you’ve legalised first trimester termination, does it really matter why you’re doing it? It’s a bit like saying it’s OK to chop down a tree to make a shelf out of it, but, for some reason, not a bench.

Wow. The inanity of that statement boggles my mind. So basically what Caitlin alludes to, is that abortion in itself is wrong, so what difference does it make if it is done for the 'right' reasons or the 'wrong' reasons? So selective abortions do not matter, because abortions ARE WRONG, and thats all there is to it.
Maybe Caitlin needs to read up on how an abortion free society actually works.

Campaigners claim that the first step towards raising the status of women in India will be the eradication of sex-selection abortion, which the Indian Medical Association estimates might run as high as five million terminations a year.

Personally, I disagree. I think the best way to raise the status of women in India would be to legalise sex-selection abortion, and allow as many of them as are requested.


Her resplendent reasoning? Market forces! Yes, market forces. Let us use oranges as our example. If there is a scarcity of oranges in the market, wont its value rise?

Aha! But miss Caitlin makes a grave mistake here. Women are NOT commodities and she has reduced women to mere objects...using the nonsensical 'supply and demand' principle for living human beings, which is what Indian women time and time again, have been fighting against for centuries.

Consider, now, if there were a two-year waiting list for Indian women. Those 1000 men would soon be duking it out for those 793 ladies. Indeed, it may well be that, in order to get married, dowries would have to be paid to the bride’s family, just to interest her in a man.

On finally getting his $80,000 woman, the man would then be doing the marital equivalent of polishing his wife every night with protective dubbin, and putting her on a special peg in the hallway. He wouldn’t use her to carry a wardrobe up a hill any more.


Duking it out? Bad choice of words aside, the only 'duking' which is going on in Punjab or Haryana in the form of "buying a bride" is a woman being sold to a group of men, and being gang raped and possibly killed.
And yet again Caitlin falls prey to objectifying women when she proudly exclaims that 'the man would be doing the marital equivalent.......yadda...yadda'.
So women are treasures on display now? Has she forgotten entirely that ummmm...women are people?

Please read the rest of the article and decide for yourselves if you want to laugh or cry at Caitlin's archaic views on 'curing' misogynism in India.

And YOU, yes you, can do something about female foeticide.

Check out this website and find out how you can contribute to invalidating the existence of this beastly practice: STOP female foeticide.

You can file a complaint if you come across any horrific incidents; without turning a blind eye, or you can pledge your support.

I wish with all my heart, that this relentless slaying, yes slaying, of girls will become a thing of the past . But I cant aspire for the stars, can I?

Post Script: I want to give a shoutout to Ashok for bringing this peice of information to my attention: The continuing practice of infanticide in Usilampatti, Tamilnadu.
The people of Usilampatti mercilessly practice infanticide and they even try to justify this heinous act, with so-called 'this-is-life-deal-with-it' kinda arguments .
I felt sick reading this article, but however repulsive it may seem, it begs to be read.
Check it out: Born to die.

129 comments:

blah_blah_blogger said...

Probably this is what our moral police should be doing something about rather than worrying themselves sick about Carol's nip slip...

Anonymous said...

disturbing... not something i wanted to read , but it has to be said and people should be aware things like this does happen in india... somehow doesnt make me very proud to be one right now..
peace
g

Essar said...

What's most frighetening is the rate at which we're regressing. And how this is just making us cynical about hoping for a change.

Aravinthan said...

Hmm.. true..lotsa poor or uneducated people do these things out of social circumstances of a spoilt society...
But its changing a lot for the good. Every day awareness about girl child is increasing and soon may be in couple of decades we might see no abortions.
To achieve that we need more literates in the rural areas.
Lets hope for the better future.
Have you guys heard of bharathudaymission.org ? They are doing a good job.

Anna said...

AND... SHE'S BACK!!!!

*applause
*more applause

:-)
Will put up more sensible comments by evening...

RefleXtion said...

Heh...I know this happy couple who have waited 5 years to get a kid. Now that there is a law of not being allowed to carry tests that will determine the sex of the child, they have no choice but to wait and find out...Thought that was quite ironic!

Freaky Chakra said...

This Caitlin person, is she a fervent Catholic by any chance? See, atleast the abortion laws (despite abuse) in this country allow women to save their lives. think of the Latin American countries, where most dont even give women that right!

Trafficking is a big problem in this country, one which most people ignore. & yes, situation in Haryana is pathetic.

Those bloody masculine Jats! Symbols of virility and strength. Of course they need "sexual brides".

Bloody frustrating!

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ blah_blah_blogger: hell yeah! I mean they're actually holding investigations for the clothing slip....bastards....

@ girish: I know eh? I feel kinda sick too reading it, but I felt it has to be said...so I went ahead and posted.

@ essar: thats exactly my point. Its frightening. But whats even more frightening are the politicians...who have built a wall of denial around themselves...

@ aravinthan: ahhh aravinthan...its not changing as much as we would like to believe..ya' know?

@ anna: will do anna, hee hee:)

@ resolution: well atleast they seem to be happy with any kid...ya know?

@ freaky: my point exactly! Ive actually given a link in my post about El Salvador....so called abortion free society...its worse than horrific to say the least.
PS: I think I made the word 'works' a link.

Siddhu said...

I didn't know things were this bad in Haryana. I'd read that article you've pasted parts of in the Times or the Guardian, and I thought maybe people would be forced to treat women better if there weren't enough going around.

Didn't think a wreteched sex-slave version of polyandry would arise out of the whole thing.

But, won't the people of Haryana and other god-forsaken armpits in our country learn their lesson when the birthrate drops? I mean, the fewer the women, the fewer the men, right?

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ siddhu: I dont know siddhu. I dont know why women are subjected to such hate. In their closeted minds......are they trying to wipe off women entirely???? I dont get it.....

The Girl Who Sold The World said...

This topic is so, so, SO sick, to put it mildly. I mean, fuck it! It's the bloody 21st century we're living in. But nooooo, most Indian pigs still prefer a son. He will be their support system in old age. As if the girl cannot do that! This is ridiculous. Punjab has the lowest sex ratio and I once read a story in HT about this village which has THE lowest sex-ratio in the entire India...and surprise, surprise! Its inhabitants are pretty well-off and many are educated. Point: education and money don't change the fucking 15th century mentalities of people. And know what the womenfolk had to say? That if they killed girls, it was out of their own will too because they wanted a son, their "support for old age" and who also carries forward the "family lineage", like you mentioned. Heck, there was this case of a woman who had to go through seven abortions because she was carrying a girl child each time. Now she is a physical and mental wreck and yet she says, "But still, I didn't have a girl, thankfully". WTF?! Such females should be put to death! I wonder what sorts of a mother can such a woman be? But on the other hand, it was perhaps somewhat good for all those poor 7 girls killed before they were born. Atleast they didn't have to go through the hellish life. Had they been born, I'm sure they wouldn't have had any rights at all, would have been uneducated and would perhaps have been sold off at 14 or 15.
India shining. No shit.

Vincent said...

Being a woman, Caitlin Moran equates an unborn girl child to a limited edition designer handbag??
Caitlin, how about a special edition handbag made of your skin? I wonder how much the sticker price should be.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ girl: man why dont these men die?
All the women should be put to death. thats what they want right? So let them realise how itll be without a single woman.
The bastards will start doing it to the animals I swear.

@ vince: What the hell does Caitlin think anyway.....good idea vince....she deserves it.

ambi said...

Google search a bit on haryana and you will see the literacy ratio is really less around 55% compared to other states. I really think this is an important factor.

ennaku this serious topics ellam suttupotallum varathu sollanumnu thonchi sonnen

ambi said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Sriram said...

I take strong objection to this post. That is one insane, absurd rant (for lack of a worse word) by Caitlin. Literacy rate has to do a lot with infanticide, but more than anything, basic *COMMON SENSE* is all that's required to see that women are no less than men. (Ok, feminists and MCs don't get too excited, I hate you anyways). Establishing this equality is the single biggest challenge our society faces. Because of years and years of chauvinism, started by a few impotent morons way back whenever, our society *thinks* that this is indeed natural order. Am I making sense even in a remote way? If the answer's yes, then we shall be back to continue this comment. :) (And no, I am NOT drunk :P)

ambi said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ambi said...

First ole(sriram - his nick name in clemson ) you dont make any sense at all.. and you never did in the past either
PS: ennada drunk 1 bear flat ara naaye

seri seri makkaley SRIIIRAM ottaratha nirthi i will let you guys discuss feminism or whatever ;-)

5:34 PM

Yogi said...

laws for the human body, what will they have next..laws of excretion..heh but seriously, i think women should have their choices of birth or abortion, considering men cant do either!

Eclectic Blogger said...

hey.. i was waiting for more updates on Mr. PB.. but u have now gone back to square one.. needless to say, me is very depressed.. sigh :(

yuvraj said...

@eclectic blooger: megha wont disappoint us..she will throw a suprise on us..she loves drift..

@megha: it`s quite common in villages out here..many shit is goin around the villages..but still INDIA SHINING

suryakannan said...

Gender Discrimination is widely prevalent in this country.It's very hard to change the basic mindset of our ppl n worse,the attrocities commited on women.

Our political system is to be blamed for this humanitarian canker.Had there been atleast one prime minister or chief minister who really cared abt his country or state then it would have made all the difference.

There have been hundreds of incidents in the past and yet the criminal manages to escape scot free.What are they doing? Jus give pep talks abt reservation of women seats?

Even all this hype n hoopla in our media circus is jus to exploit the issue and provide twisted views to tailor the public opinion to their fabric.

The reality shows are totally absurd, they kindle the feelings,create a real drama n make quick bucks out of it.

Madame Mahima said...

awesome post...and yes its true..the literacy rates, the female to male ratio in harayana are truly deplorable...its the worst in asia. disgusting
i didnt know about this 're-selling' for brides..it literally made me a bit sick in the stomach.

i hope i live to see the day things take an about-turn...

now, having said that... i cant WAIT to see what the trolls are going to say about this post
=D

kaushik said...

literate or illiterate does not matter. esp in haryana and rajasthan....the lady who gives birth to a girl is so looked down upon by her inlaws as well as her parents...tht she thinks its better to abort/kill than to live with people biching about her all the time!

and talking about dowry....i have a frnd from a village in karnataka who did engg with me! he was telling that he 'CAN' demand upwards of 5 lacs as dowry and there will be line of suitors waiting for him, agreeing to pay that much...because he is a 'engineer'....here we have families of the girl who dont mind dowry!

nina said...

hey megha...long time...there was a news story on the similar issue which aired on NDTV a couple of months ago...app in bihar n MP also the sex ratio is droppin so what people are now doing is buying a girl from a lower caste(whats with the caste business anyway?) and training them in the rituals of the upper cast and then getting them married to upper caste guys who think their wives are really from their caste...n the guys pay the couple who train them...so basically buyin a wife...so again she is a commodity and once bought can be treated anyway!!!!
anyway nice post....keep it comin!!!

politically_incorrect_guy said...

I just finished a Piece on a practical solution to END The problem of Female Foeticide/Infanticide in my blog and happened to be here.

Well, not surprisingly the whole write up is full of rant... or just trying to say - Men are bad, this that, beating about the bush. Rather than focussing on who created the problem, how about trying to solve this one? We need practical solutions to the problem. It is not another Women versus Men debate. If you conduct a poll i bet that 90% of Indian Men (in age group 15 to 65) would prefer to live in a society with more women than men. And in my opinion, the best thing for society would be a sex ratio of 1200 women for 100 men.

Hence, the way to go is not endless debating but empowering the parents of girl child. If the parents of girl child are given the right incentives, they will feel proud of having girl children and that is the only way to reverse the sex ratios.

And one more thing to be noted here:

Some Christian Missionaries have tried to project this whole female infanticide thing as a "Hindu Practice". I donno how, but their marketing does work in converting and in making more people get away from Hinduism. But that apart, Female Foeticide and Female Infanticide , low Sex ratio is not a india specific problem because:

1. In China and Korea, Sex ratio is worse than India... some 830 girls for every 1000 boys. This is in Buddhist, Atheistic,Non Hindu, Marxist, Maoist Communist China. How?

2. Sex ratio equally low in Islamic Pakistan and in the Holy State of Saudi Arabia - less than 850 women for every 1000 men. Why?

3. In India too, low female to male sex ratio seems to be a regional problem, confined to Punjab, Haryana, Delhi, Rajastan, UP and parts of Maharastra... How?

It is time that someone tried to answer these... and my own take- "Preference to Male Child" is something of an Asian Trait... not specific to one nation or religion or culture. The problem should be adressed across Asia, not just in India alone.

politically_incorrect_guy said...

A Correction on last post - The ideal Sex ratio in my opinion would be 1200 women for 1000 men.

Abhishek Upadhyay said...

Thats very sad. well This is what you can expect from a population which is uneducated and under poverty line.

Hope the education flourishes and people understand that killing daughetr is killing mother itself.

Ragnell said...

I've got to complement you on the structure of this post. You point out the results of that featherbrained antifeminist's attitude before presenting the attitude.

Very powerful.

ashok said...

this post is incomplete without the mention of "Usilampatti" and its surrounding villages in Madurai district..the infamous epicenter of female infanticide in Tamil Nadu.

Somebody made a joke of the famous Tamil film song "uslilamppati penkutti mutupechi..un osaram parthu en kaluthu sulikki poochu"..The singer is shocked and surprised to see a girl from usilampatti grown so tall..wer its a practice to finish them off when they r infants.

vbk said...

typical megha fare : intimidating the community which intimidates the female race, packaged with the powerful message.. of feminism. i guess the state of females is abysmally low. below the line which is considered optimistic. propogating this breed of feminism is something brilliant which ur doing. maybe with more efforts with more ppl like u the female community will reach the 'zero' line... and move on to the things above.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ ambi: very good. varrathu na vitidu.

@ sriram: yeah that woman is a load of shit. And yes, youre making sense sriram...you dont sound drunk.

@ yogi: its not what men can do and men cant do. And yes women should have that right. But societal pressures, make her abort her girl child. That is what irks me.

@ eclectic: yuvraj has answered you comment perfectly, but yeah....itll come up...dont worry!:D

@ yuvraj: India shining, with no women , thats their aim.

@ suryakannan: political figures do nothing. Let more women die, it feeds the patriarchy remember!

@ Mahi: Im glad you liked this post. When I was readig up on this topic before posting, I was feeling sick as well. 10 million little girls ya know? It just kills you just to think about it. And trolling will happen, dont worry:)

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ kaushik: Yeah! Ive heard Indian guys, living here in the states talk about dowry dealings.....no offense to anyone here...but mostly the telugu guys Ive come across treat dowry as part and parcel of their marriage.

@ nina: yeah! long time no see, man! how was the trip? And that buying bride is a farce. Shell be sold to 6 men and re sold, you wait and see....

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ politically_incorrect_guy: Now dude, how can you call this post a rant? It is all very nice and easy to point fingers at me and say Im blaming men. Where did I blame men? Im just laying it out as it is. And if men are the perpetuators then am I supposed to not mention that?
Be politically correct about it?
Sorry I cant.
And the only reason why I focused on India was because Im Indian, and I have a better knowledge about foeticide and infanticide in India, in general than other countries. And I had a first hand knowledge of 'bride-trafficking'...so it only makes sense to focus on India.
That being said WHERE WAS THE WOMEN VS MEN DEBATE? pray tell me. I dont see it.
And some of your tips are actually feasible. But I still think it is ludicrous to focus on the whole of Asia, when we are unable to solve our own problems.

@ abhishek: Yes! I mean, if there are no women, where will the men come from?

@ ragnell: thanks! I couldnt help it, her article made my blood boil...it didnt make any freakin sense in the first place! I mean, she compares a woman to a Birkin bag! Shes a woman, for cryin out loud! How can she think that way?

@ashok: you know what. Im going to update my post, with your info. Thanks mate!

@ vbk: with more people like me females will reach the 'zero' line?

ummmm...maybe I'm ieffably dumb, but pray tell me what you were driving at?

Miss DilDo said...

well... if there were increased sales of dildos in india then we won't be needing men at all you see!~ we'd have sperm banks and women will domainate society, not that we haven't but we will eventually arive at the top.


push for dildos and we be free.

Tu Comprends?

Oui ou Non?

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ miss dildo: whoa, whoa, whoa!
Your handle....leaves me speechless!

LOL @ push for dildos and we'll be free...

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@Megha -

1.It is only for you to get the big picture that i focussed on Asia.. the whole craze about getting a boy is an Asian thing.. it is totally absent in European/Western societies... maybe u did not get that. Anyway, i only caution people against those who have a loaded agenda, stating that the whole Female foeticide is a Hindu thing.. yes believe me, i have seen some Christian (protestant) missionary propaganda along those lines.... if you are ready to fall for it, it is a different thing altogether.

2. As i said, i have posted some really practical steps to eliminate Female infanticide (in my Blog)... it is not about banning abortion or sending the doctors to jail. That never works. Draconian laws can never work.. remember what happened to prohibition? The way to go is to empower the PARENTS OF THE GIRL CHILD and that would begin through some kind of special social security for only those who have girl children.

@Ms Dildo ...

Well you seem to suggest that the society would be better off without males... some evolution scientists are now suggesting that in a few hundred/thousand generations, males as a gender would vanish... in some mammals like elephants, due to poaching etc, males are already a scarcity. I really dont know if that would happen to Homosapiens, though Feminazis and radical femmies would wish for that... but Darwin's laws will win and any uni-gendered species will simply run out of incentives to continue and prolong and propagate its existence..

the wannabe indian punkster said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Yogi said...

agreed, social pressures do force a woman to act quite against her will, but the same social pressures make them rebel too just for the sake of it, but the point is well put, its a choice and its their own choice to decide whats best for them, no internal or external influences should be a factor in that decision.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Politically incorrect guy: Empower the parents of the girl child is sensible, yes....but what about the mindset of the male? What about the man who thinks his wife/daughter/even mother, are his possessions?

There should be a drift, a societal drift, in actually RESPECTING the female: not putting her on a pedestal, not calling her a whore as soon as she falls of that pedestal, just look at her as a living, breathing, human.
Nothing more, nothing else.
The societal conditioning; that a woman belongs to her parents before marriage and she belongs to her in-laws after marriage and of course the high 'value' of the son(dowry)...all put together leads to infancticide and foeticide.

I dont think Ms. Dildo was serious about her comment...I mean look at her handle....*cough*

1:24 PM

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@Megha,

The mind set change that you suggest cannot be acheived instantly.. it would take an entire generation ,maybe 30-50 years before people come to accept the females as equal human entities... but are we to wait till then and see the sex ratio decline to say 400 females for 1000 men??? And see a even bloated population in India??? And see an army of restless single males fighting over caste and regional issues?

For all the mindset thing about men not respecting women, it is a fact that Money commands and brings respect.. women with potential to bring and earn money are respected by men.. and men who fail to earn well are condemned and ridiculed by women. It is a hard reality. Given this, incentivising the parents of girl child by special aid/privileges is the way to go... take example of the SC/ST reservation and what it has done to the dalits.A once despised caste people are today the most envied lot right? So if the message spreads that having a girl child means some money, the attitudes will change overnight.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ yogi: I want you to put yourself in a girls shoes, and think for a moment:
You were brought up your whole life with the ideology that you will belong to your in-laws/husband after marriage. You didnt put that ideology in your head, your parents kept feeding it in you, so much so, you cannot belive anything else. And you are also brought up with the ideology that it is sacrilegious to leave your 'pathi' because he is 'God'....and you are also brought up to belive that your parents would have been much happier if they had had a son, because he would continue the 'bloodline' of the family.
Now with all this conditioning, how will a woman just decide one day that she cannot take this nonsense and stand up for herself?
Especially in India, she might even be killed, sometimes even by her parents.

Thats why I say that blaming women for their own problems is LUDICROUS.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ politically incorrect guy: OH wonderful.
What about the majority of the women who are denied an education in the first place?
Pray tell me. How will they JUST earn money?
Yes, it may take a while to garner basic respect for a woman, but atleast the change will take place.

politically_incorrect_guy said...

I would also differ from the view that Social mindset of women being "serving agents" of men is contributing to greater infanticide.... statistics is showing that female to male ratio was much higher in early 1900s, at a time when Women had even fewer rights , right?

Perhaps, the big problem today is that parents are realising that they have a longer post retirement life to live and they need someone to feed them after their 40s and 50s.. and the expectation is that a boy can take care of parents , so the obsession with getting atleast 1 male child. No one has thought about this right?

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@Megha,

You Dint get my point ( you dint visit my blog i guess). My suggestion is that all parents who have 1 or 2 girl children should be given a special social security income - something like Rs 800 a month, irrespective of other factors. Likewise all those parents with more than one male child should be stripped of their ration cards and all other benefits. Maybe a special tax on such people. Why are people obsessed with getting a boy? Bcos they want some social security in their old age.. and if government gives that to those with girl kids, the whole equation changes.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

How vague and how convenient for you to say 'statistics show that....blah blah'

and as for your second point again, societal conditioning and patriarchal, yes patriarchal conditioning has made people belive that they need a 'male' to take care of them for what will the poor weak 'female' do....she belongs to the in-laws after all....
bleh.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

I actually like your idea. Strip benefits for people with male offspring and reverse the equation for people with girls and the equation changes.
Its actually quite brilliant.

politically_incorrect_guy said...

It really surprises me that the rabblerouser crowd of the Feminist Intellectuals - the brinda karats and the Mahasweta devis and C.S Lakshmis of our India have never thought of such ideas.

My question is , why has no one done this already? And my suspicion is - most of the people (including the feminists you adore) have a personal agenda in persisting the problem. Jha the guy who made that movie on subject (Mathrubomi or something) is a good example, he showcases the problem to make a successful career, but he is disinterested in thinking of the solution. Typical Indian intellectual mindset. More on them latter.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

Excuse me?
Feminists I adore?
wow...now you actually know my likes and dislikes?
Stop making assumptions on my life.
And rabble rousing is fine. Cos then atleast, people will sit up and take notice.
Awareness is paramount; because awareness raises questions and dont questions lead to solutions? Isnt that the way solutions are reached in the first place?
Proposing solutions before questions can even be raised is useless to say the least.

Anonymous said...

You may be interested in this New York times story on El Salvador http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/09/magazine/09abortion.html?th&emc=th

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ anon: thanks for the link. I will put it in my post.

politically_incorrect_guy said...

What if the objective of raising awareness is not necessarily benign but sinister.. a person who raises awarness in say Year 1, should start pushing towards thinking towards a solution by say Year 2 or 3.... but if same issue is rotated again and again without ending it, what is the meaning?

In the case of this Female Foeticide issue, i simply dont find anybody intersted in addressing the issue (arresting some doctors and closing some scanning centers is not a solution)... the issue has been published, debated , raised for last many years (atleast from late 1990s), but why is no solution brought up??? Perhaps you are unable to realise, but i see a crowd making use of situation to their own profit/publicity... it happens almost everywhere in every situation. Indian Feminists i know are mostly of that category.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ politically incorrect guy:Its very convenient for blaming feminists for all the problems our society faces.
What about the men? The MAJORITY of the Indian population?
Are they seraphic angels?

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@Megha -

yuck you have again got on the Men-vs-women angle .. this really gets anyone off their chair. Why cant you see the whole thing objectively?

PS- I blame not only feminists but also male liberals and people like Jha who profitted from the problem and refuse to contribute toward meaningful solution to curb infanticide.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ politically incorrect: you made me look at that angle.
Its like blaming someone for something they never did in the first place, and then turning around and pointing a "I told you so" finger in their face, after pushing them to commit the act that they were blamed for, nonsensically.

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@ Megha, same applies to you... you generalise the whole thing to "Men" and say men did that and you say "Women are wiped off"....... a few million men forcing their wives to abort their foetus do not represent the entire 550 million Indian males.

And since the feminists raise the issue, is it not reasonable that they find a solution? Or is it that we should accept the present state of affairs? When do we move forward?

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ a few million.
How casually you throw that number around.
It pains me to hear you say that.

politically_incorrect_guy said...

It equally pains me too... but then what can i do about them, they are not my "Avtars", and they dont and wont listen to me .

Sriram said...

@politically_incorrect_guy :
Wait a minute.. wait a fuckin minute here. it equally pains you, and yet, from your previous comment, it does look like you don't give a shit or a rat's ass about infanticide. So, is this apparent contradiction due to a disturbance in the spatio-temporal dimension?

Consider this situation.. you walk on the road and then, some random girl walks up and kicks you square on the balls (and by that, i mean a kick with a steel-toe boot). While you lie there wincing in unimaginable pain, some 10 or so onlookers gather around and say, " oh well, he got that coming.. he was asking for that treatment cuz of the way he was dressed". That's how screwed up society is.This is exactly what women go through. Senseless bull-shit, if you get the point. Worse yet is the apathy shown by men like you, assuming you are one (and I dont mean anything else by that statement).It doesn't matter if people don't listen to you. However, it matters when you show apathy to this kind of a situation. How can you really say "few million men forcing their wives to abort their foetus do not represent the entire 550 million Indian males". That seems something that Adolf can come up with.

I'm no statistician, but hell, as long as men like you speak the way they do, this society will and shall go to pot.

Btw, neo-conservative is just another word that means "dipshit".

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@Sriram,

How do you know that i care a rat's ass about Female infanticide??

How can you jump to such sweeping conclusions?

Have you gone through any of my posts?

Or see my blog where i have talked about a practical solution to female infanticide....

And you jump to abusing me as "dipshit", pray what do you know about me???

Before jumping to any conclusions, better read all my posts... yes i again repeat, not all the 550 million Indian men are asking their wives to abort their foetuses.. if that is happening, there would be not a single women left . And for that Adolf, pray do you know what Adolf Hitler was all about??? I bet you know nothing.

Guess you have a serious problem and want to let off your anger... grow up and read all my posts before you jump to abuse and swear at me. Yes some netiquette should help you.

politically_incorrect_guy said...

And Sriram , if you have guts, come up with a sensible suggestion to end female infanticide... Ive come up already with mine.. What about you? do you really care? Your blog has nothing on this, so what does it mean?

or if you say that all 550 million indian men are guilty of hurting and killig girls,that includes you so if you are guilty of murder and abuse, go and hang yourself.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ politically incorrect; feisty are we?
What was wrong in what sriram said?
A few millions seem insignificant to you?
what apathy.

chandni said...

Quoting from the article that you linked up : "The value of a girl goes down every time the value of gold goes up,"

I have no words really. One cant even blame it on lack of education or poverty, this obsession of having a male child. Its just everywhere.

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@Megha,

Did i say that a Few Millions are insignificant any where?

I say and i meant that a few million indian men forcing their women to abort their foetus does not represent the 550 million Indian men...

I meant that the rest of men cannot be blamed for the faults of these few million men. And personally there is nothing that i can do to influence these men in anyway... what can be done is joint social action to change things.


This is Just as a few million Indian Mothers In laws , who hurt and beat their daughter-in laws does not represent all of the 530 million Indian women.


Got that?? I told something, simple , in plain english.

Where does apathy come??? I am not one among those few million men and what else do you expect me to do? Self Immolate or fast in front of Rashtrapathi Bhavan?


How can you jump to conclusions and state something which i never said or meant?

And you find Sriram to be right?? The man has not even an iota of decency and etiquette.... and a single statement gets loaded into interpretations and enough to make me an Adolf ---- so if you dont like someone, call him Adolf ?? Is this objective reasoning? Calling names and swearing at people? Have you bothered to read my views in first place? And for Adolf, does he know anything about Adolf, Nazism etc?

I have already given an idea (workable idea) to combat female foeticide, let me see if Sriram has anything better on his sleeve... found nothing worthwhile in his blog...

and for godsake please dont start on "you care a rats ass on female infanticide bla bla"... and read all my posts, i have given a tonne of opinion on what should be done and what should be the idea female to male ratio (1200 women for 1000 men) and if it is a case of selective amnesia, then Sriram is free to go and hang himself or fall from the nearest cliff. Or if it is just trolling, he must feel guilty for making use of a serious issue like foeticide to start a flame/troll war.

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@Chandni,

Dont agree with the statement that "It is there everywhere"... female infanticide is not widespread in some regions and among some ethnic groups. Kerala and N.E India , to tell an example.

chandni said...

@Politically incorrect guy:

"And since the feminists raise the issue, is it not reasonable that they find a solution?"

It seems u use the word "feminists" as an abuse!

One more grudge agianst "feminists": ...they want to save babies now!Blasphemous, right??? After all, its about "girls" so women are wholly solely responsible for stopping it, worrying about it...
what is a few million in the country??

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ chandni: I had to stop my hands from shaking, when I read that article.
I had no words as well.
I feel you, chandni...cos I went through the same thing wile reading that article.

@ politically incorrect guy:
where did I blame all the men? There you go pointing fingers again.
I talked about our misgynistic patriarchal society and its conditioning. But then since you have zero understanding of patriarchy...you immediately assume that patriarchy=men.

chandni said...

@ politically incorrect:

The want for a male child is EVERYWHERE. Read my statement more carefully.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ chandni: Exactly!
Mr. Politically incorrect says that since feminists raise the issue, feminists should find the way while the 'innocent' men twiddle their thumbs.
this is misogyny at its best.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@politically incorrect:
Kerala is another ball game altogether. And there is no infanticide in NE India?
Please get your facts straight Mr. politically incorrect.

chandni said...

@Megha: Sometimes, I feel defeated before I begin...

I wont explain it furthur, I just know you'll get what I mean.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ chandni: that article....it shook me...ya' know?
I mean...some there are some villages in Rajasthan where not a single girl child has been allowed to live for decades!!!!

Why? Why? what does our patriarchal society want?
to wipe out all women?
Then where will our 'gods':the men, come from?

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@Chandni,

Well you choose to decide on what i should think and what i should do, does it sound reasonable?

Radical Feminism that blames Patriarchy for everything and which considers the 6000 year World civilised history as one long tale of MEN OPPRESSING WOMEN is something that is totally unacceptable and absurd to me... If you want me to agree on that, i cannot and i will never.it is no different from Adolf's world view of everything as a Zionist-Jewish Conspiracy.


And "WANT FOR MALE CHILD IS THERE EVERYWHERE".. is that not a sweeping generalisation? There are thousands of couples and parents throughout India, who have restricted their families with one or two female kids or do you say that there is not even 1 family in India without a boy ? If you think so, come with me , let me show atleast a hundred families, which have happily stopped with 1 or 2 girl children. And let me tell you none of them are feminists are interested in Feminism.


And Chandni, stop making creative interpretations on my statements, did i ever say that a few million dead girls are good? I have stated already that ideal sex ratio should be 1200 women to 1000 men.


@Megha-

Is it that feminists weep and grumble and men jump to find solutions? Feminism is not Chivalry, but ending chivalry.

The misogynist Patriarchial societies that you accuse of being responsible for female foeticide, exist in Europe and USA and Russia too... how is that Female Foeticide is not existing in those nations?

And Kerala is a different ball game... ok, just an excuse to not getting a right answer???? Kerala is also a patriarchial society and dowry is very much thriving in Kerala (apart from sex traffikking and porn) and that has not come in the way of high sex ratios in Kerala.

And Get facts straight... Census 2001 clearly points out that while female to male child sex ratios are falling, there are some places where they are stable , and N.E India, parts of Central India, South Bihar are some places not yet affected by Female infanticide till now. And please dont tell me that you dont get your numbers from Census or that Census is one Big Patriarcial Invention.

And finally, let me say this :objective analysis will always help in longer term.

chandni said...

@Politicaaly incorrect: You say that onjective alalysis will help right? Then please stop looking at it as a men vs women issue. You start only with looking at patriarchy and feminism in a negative light.

The issue of infanticide or gender discrimination for that matter, is a much much more complex issue that cannot be explained by Census numbers.

If families have "stopped" after having only girls, its fine...there is no earning of more brownie points there coz that's the way it should be.

Comparing the issues in Asia with Europe will not help, there are a thousand cultural differences including more economic independence for women.

Please dont take this argument personally, feminism is not "bra-burning" and "men-hating" as interpreted in common understanding. And when one talks about patriarchy, it does not mean that one is pointing fingers at all that the men that walk the face of the world. However you need to understand that its a social organisation that structures the dominance of men over women.

And quoting census doesnt change reality. So kindly try and understand it before rejecting the argument that it exists and manifests itself in everyday life, yours and mine.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ politically incorrect: since chandni has echoed my thoughts verbatim, Im only going to say this:
Feminists are NOT man-haters.
Feminists are for equality between the sexes. But unfortunately in a misogynistic society, even that is touted as extremism.

And PLEASE try to understand what patriarchy is before jumping to conclusions.

@ chandni: here we are talking about an issue where millions of girls are being killed and what do we get?
We get blamed for being discriminatory.
We are asked to find solutions ourselves, cos' oh....we brought light to this situation in the first place so its only our duty to find a solution....
And what happens to the perpetuators?
And what are men supposed to do?
Nothing.
You get my drift, dont you.

Sriram said...

@ PIG (Whoa! Politically_incorrect_guy, now I swear to God, I'm just abbreviating and not equating you to an animal. so no hard feelings). What do we know about Adolf? Hmm.. For a moment, let's look at your statements. Aren't you guilty of the same crime you accuse me of? You have no idea of who I am. And as for your posts, lemme tell you that I did read them and most of those sounded like the kind of stuff people with half-baked brains come up with. And PRAY, do we KNOW what APATHY means? go get a better knowledge of the word and come back. And for one, if I'm resorting to name calling, it would be nothing like my previous comment. I've got stuff to do now. We'll continue this later.

tilotamma said...

Megha just remembered an

Old post of mine on this Usilampatti topic.


since you brought this up. It was tough even reading about it.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ tilo: Oh man.
I know what you mean.
Unfortunately people in usilampatti are getting even more unscrupulous in their killing. They will do anything, to avoid being detected by the govt.

Please read the article Ive provided at the end of this post Tilo, its horrific to say the least.
I couldnt eat a thing after that.

Miss DilDo said...

@ megha: For starters my handle has got nothing to do with this blog posting!

@ fucked up political guy... Secondly, we'd seriously be better off without men -- atleast in Bihar ;-)

And men need to be given sex ops and sent off to Bihar to really know wtf it feels like to be a) gang-raped, or b) have acid thrown in your face or even c) .....

the wannabe indian punkster said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Deepali said...

"The problem should be adressed across Asia, not just in India alone."

That is such a stupid statement in so many ways. Can we first address it within our own country before we point at others?Th problem in India is not due to other Asian countries or did you not notice that?

Megha: My dear, your patience in replying to comments such as this must be applauded. I got 4-5 such stupid comments and I was ready to ignore them all. And you get a steady flow of them!

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ dee: I know eh?
This issue is so tangible, so serious...I mean I just couldnt let an inane statement like that slide by, I just couldnt.
Even though I know that our point is never going to get across...you know what I mean?

confused said...

@Politically incorrect guy,

Let me begin by stating that I am not the greatest admirer of Megha around, I think she rants too much, her blood boils too often, and she is discovering too many things toofast. Having said, this is her blog and she has evry right to write what she pleases, I may or maynot like her writing but that does not mean I question her right to write, which you seem to do too often...

Now lets get to your arguments-

1.You argue that a patriarchal society is not responsible for high rate of female infanticide. While that premise is itself arguable(as is the premise that USA is a pariarchal society), what exactly is your fascination for such a society? A patriarchal socity by definition condones a man dominating the social structure.Why is that such a holy cow? Why is that an ideal which you find necessary to defend with such vehmence?

2. You argue that feminists do not want to solve the problem and ask them to provide solutions. First, I may point out that Megha is not =feminism, this blog represnts her personal views just like yours and mine does, and not the views of a group of women(persumably) called feminists. Your blame them for painting all men as bastards and then proceed to blame all feminists as man haters. Whats good for the goose is good the gander too! Please do not make generalizations, if you expect other people not too.

3. Writing about a problem does not include any obligation to provide a solution. Pray, how many solutions has Times of India ever provided? Awareness is also important.

4. Coming to your self proclaimed brilliant solution(amazingly Megha finds it brilliant too), it is evident you have spend considerably less time on your ''solution'' than you have spend arguing on this blog.

You idea of giving 800rs for every girl child and depriving others of ration cards is amusing, that I assume was not you purpose in putting forth this solution. So whats wrong with it?

1. In a democracy , the idea is about as workable as forced sterlizations. If these kind of ideas could have worked, we wont be challenging China in the population figures. China, I might point out is not a democracy.

2. Suppose your idea works and people for monetary incentive actually begin to have girls childs. What kind of upbriging this mercenary approach will encourage? What will ensure that a child who exists only to provide 800 rs to the family is actually well taken care of?

3. Such ''brillient ideas'' have been already been tried out in states like Haryana. What is the sex ratio in that state?

4. Female infanticide is perhaps most prevelant in Haryana and Punjab, two of India's most prosperous states? Could you explain female infanticide in these states in economic terms?

Since I commented on this problem, I guess it entails on me to provide a solution. All rite, here I try...kindly note my solution is not brilliant but more common sense.

1.Enforce the law-We in India love to believe law is an ass and cannot be enforced. When Civil rights revolution came in United States, what did you think? Every White person who refused to share his seat with a Black person had a sudden change of heart? No the law was enforced, and people understood whatever their inner feeling they could not get away with it. Try everyone who kills their girl child for murder, close all the ultrasound clinics which practise such ''arts'', set an example and see what happens. Atleast try! Before you say, this is not workable, remember the first conviction under pre natal disclosure of sex took place only recently-10 years after the act was enacted. No one has ever been convicted for killing their girl child. Left to the society, their prejuidices might not change in 100 years, as the popularity of Sati in Rajsthan proves, somethings have to be shoved down the throat....

2. Economic developmeent- And that does not mean giving doles. A lot of female infanticide in poorer agricultural dependent areas, take place because women cannot(persumably) cannot work as hard in field. What you require as gender neutral industries, like IT....for this to happen, the primary education system in India which is underfunded and is in doldrums has to be rebuilt.

3. Empowerment- How do you do that? I believe that you have ensure women from economically poorer areas have to get into universities, the model followed in US can be replicated where women who come from poorer areas are given ''hardship allowance'', not the same as reservations. When these women go back to their socities as successful entities, they will set an example for others.

@Miss Dildo,

Thanks for your nice comments. I wish you all sucess in your attempts to copulate with your dildo.

May your tribe increase.

RefleXtion said...

Gosh...I leave for two days and there is a full fledged debate (putting it mildly) going on!!

@ politically_incorrect_guy's comments

All states/Regions stated are areas where dowry is still VERY rampant.

I did read your blog and honestly (not trying to start a fight) it is a quick fix and not a permanent solution.

Education, higher number of jobs for women, woman's independence is the true solutions to such problems. The society needs to see that a woman can be on par with a male in terms of earning and being self-sufficient.

I live in Chennai, I have a girlfriend, who comes from a conservative background. If I get married to her, her father will pick up the complete bill. I don’t like this, but I can’t do anything to stop it. Her father does not understand why she is studying so much or why she has high ambitions. Believe me she’s a total fighter…I see what she’s up against…She’s not being put down…but her folks think her purpose of existence is to get married and settle down…everything else comes next…better in the metros…but it’s still there…that a girl child is more of a responsibility.

So what will work? What’s the real solution…all I can think of is continuous propagation by the media, television movies etc etc. And it should not be about something like “Stop Abortion” or “One Male One Female” and shit like that. It should be positive propagation about successful women, jobs that are there for women, earning capacities in the market, what women are doing in the field of education, research…messages that will bring a long term view that “Hey, I’ve got a girl…it’s no burden…she can do…this and that and that and…” (You get the picture). I cannot see shortcut solutions to this…

@ Megha

You know why I love your blog? It's all these comments and reactions you get out of people...it adds so much more juice to the blog..I can't read it and NOT post a comment...it's like sitting in a class room knowing the answer to the question your teacher throws at the class and I'm jumping "ME ME ME"...Good job dee!

Ragnell said...

I think the problem of... Ahem, Politically Incorrect Guy (Did you pick one that abbreviates to PIG on purpose?) is that at its heart it strengthens the attitude seen in Moran's article, that women are commodities to be bought and sold. The girl child's value will still be tied up in how much money th parents get for her. That very attitude is what leads to the horrors described by Megha in the very first part of the post.

Women will not be treated any better by Indian society with such measures enforced, it's a quick fix and what's needed is a logn term solution.

Deepali said...

@ragnell Ahem, Politically Incorrect Guy (Did you pick one that abbreviates to PIG on purpose?)

ahahahah!!!

Let me begin by stating that I am not the greatest admirer of Megha around, I think she rants too much

Guys and girls, can you please pick up a damned a dictionary and discover the meaning of the word rant? I know i know, it's like a kindergarten pleasure to see who uses new words first and throws it in at every available opportunity HOWEVER, I think some of us here think that KG is so over.

If you're still clueless, here is the thing. Rant is when a person is only venting out/ blowing off steam sans the constructive criticism or looking at causes or engaging in critical analysis. If you're looking for a better example of a rant, feel free to scroll up and see some of your own comments, it will fit in perfectly.

So let's change this repeated excercise of commenting on EVERY post with 'rant' labelling. It's getting boring now.

*yawns*

Deepali said...

Megha: I know what you mean, sadly,from experience.

p.s. anytime you'd like to talk, ACTUALLY rant etc. feel free to add me and msg away [unless you're not a normal univ. student and deprive yourself of the MSN goodness- which is blasphemy!]

yesyes this is code-msg for man-hating.

confused said...

dee,

I made a pretty long comment, and you showed your tremendous maturity by picking up one line, which was a sort of preamble to the rest of my comment and jump up and down..

As you rightly said, most of us are out of KG, that however does not seem to include you. I am surprised, you had nothing to say about the rest of the comment.

I guess, you think rant can be a new word for any one. That itself is enough to convery the extent of your intellect..anyways..thank you for enlightening us with its meaning.

With visionaries like you, the feminist movement is in safe hands.

May your tribe also increase.(along with miss dildo).

Yawns(I am really sleepy)

Goodnite.

Yogi said...

true madame, i know the conditioning here sucks, but i have a feelign it is changing slowly, maybe not an immediate change, but there is a feeling of openess which is atleast making it through the metros now, lets see how far that can go, maybe mordernisation will have an impact one day.

Nath said...

This thread has been Godwinized, so I suppose it's unreasonable to expect any further progress to be made. Nonetheless, as a neutral observer, I must say that it's rather unfortunate that these discussions inevitably end up going this way (I'm referring to the "so-and-so is a $body_part/$animal/$evil_dictator" posts).

It seems to me that most of the posters in this thread agree that declining ratios are, in fact, a Bad Thing (tm). However, it looks like more time has been spent discussing who is a bigoted, misogynist/misandrist, chauvinistic -- help me out here, Thesaurus.com -- than on discussing actual solutions. Granted, there was some discussion of things that could be done in TFA, but I think it would be nice if we could have a level-headed discussion about that here.

I for one, think that p_i_g (no offense; er, do you have a preferred abbreviation?) was on to something with his rewards idea. I see Meghna's point that's not a satisfactory or complete solution, but I think it's a start.

Ekta said...

Hey girl,
First time on ur blog and loved the post-in fact reading the story gave me goose pimples!
and this is probably just an example of many more said untold stories where woman suffer in silence...
Guess however the world lives on hope--a hope of a better future!

Vasu the terrible said...

:).. I was smiling at the comments. This exactly the trap we set up if we misplace our reasons for social phenomena...

the way I understand this problem is different. Its not overnight that people had developed this idea of killing baby girls... Its not just a law and order issue, where you can arrest and lock up the parents.

Its a very wide socio-economic debate on how our society is constructed. Its about economics of jobs, economics of marriage and dowry, social mores and standards.

One thing is quiet clear. you cant outsmart people on the ground. If you frame all kinds of laws (restrictive) to prevent pre-natal sex determination (This law exists in india and considers it illegal to have pre-natal gender determination tests), there will be ways and means to subvert that. If a couple has decided to have a male child you cant prevent them.

That said, The right approach to eliminate this practice is a mixture of enforcement, education and a change in social attitude.

I quiet agree with Politically Incorrect guy's approach. Folks, I dont want to get into the man vs. woman debate. I neither endorse nor support for any of your man vs. woman arguments. Thats just personal ego hassels. Its no sense to argue "How can you this about me ?, you dont know me ?" and vice versa.

Raja ram mohan roy and dayanand sarswaty have literally single handedly rooted sati from the system. Within a period of 20-30 years they did that. With a reorientation of social morals and enforcement of the law. Law alone cant do jackshit in India. Its just a larger social sense of right and wrong. They built their conciousness. I am sure a GOI notification banning abortions will have zero effect on the people of India than an appeal by saibaba or Sri Sri ...

People with tremendous personal capital and goodwill are the ones who can change society.

Megha can post and inform a 100 people.. I can maybe inform some 10 people...

Ultimately for the scale and effort reqd, we dont have the personal capital.

But I agree with megha in efect that this is a serious situation.

Correction : Usilampatti infanticide issue is an old issue. Such incidents are fast on the decline after the stupendous work done by JJ and the Self help group system.

Not to say that it has been eliminated but some of what is said about the salem infanticide killings and those in other parts of tamil nadu is a little out dated.. The SHGs today consists of women geared to have a network of jobs, health benifits, micro-credit and fertility and child care issues. Its much better now.

A negative thing sticks for ever. Most donot register corrective actions taken thereof.

That said, the situation in haryana, bihar and norther states are really grim. Mathrubhooomi is not to that effect a fiction. Its closer to reality than we might realise.

But hey, if I am a farmer with huge debts poor and struggling to feed and if I have 3 daughters.. and if I live in a feudal village.. what do I do ?

1) Take a loan and marry my daughters off ?
2) Go farther down the debt hole and become a bonded slave to pay the debt off ?
3) Sell my land, educate my kids and move into the city in the hope that some day my daughters would be able to sustain themselves and me ?

The options really are grim enough.. And the more educated people get today the higher their expectations and higher their frustrations of economics not meeting their needs. These educated jobs are in cities where large families cant be supported and the farmer would end up digging a bigger hole if he spends on stupid education for his kids.

With these really hard options in front of him, what can you expect but chose male kids and kill/abort female kids ?

Its wrong but what choice does he have ?

As long as we continue to make lofty moral statements and dont change ground realities, we will still have enough to post and appreciate and sympathise with each other on these gory happenings.

We will still be doing it 10 years from now. I dont see any big social change happening in India because of economic change, cos economic growth hasnt spread elsewhere. They are still in the lockers and accounts of slick city dwelling folks who have their belly full.

All I am saying is it is a systemic problem whose symptom is the 922 women per 1000 male. If you dont understand that and try to act in isolation, people would only find smarter ways to lay off a burden.

Yes in many situations a girl child is a burden. If it is too difficult to understand that, sorry you live in a different planet.

Should it be burden, no ? If you want to change the world. Change that.

Instead of buying expensive consmetics or dining in high end restraunts, lets put money where our mouth is ?

Can we not start/support an NGO of choice in this area ?

The SHG experiment has worked wonders in tamil nadu. I think its time people updated themselves about the SHG revolution in tamil nadu. The usilampatti crisis is a thing of the past. There are many NGOs who sponsor SHG efforts. No dearth of them.

I know one in chennai which helps in micro-credit financing ? Tell me how many are interested, I will find out name and address...

50 USD a month will make a world of diff...

vasu

Vasu the terrible said...

@ Megha - I appreciate your efforts in bringing attention to the practice of female infanticide. Its bad not just for society at large and the fact that a womanless society as portrayed in Mathrubhoomi by Jha would hit the self-destruct button very easily, but also from the aspect of human rights and the right of a girl child to live a full life.

Unfortunately when you are a child, esp a girl child you are inherit a system and situation upon which the girl child has no control and equally unfortunate is lack of opportunity for parents of these child to pull themselves out of the debt hole. Worse is these people donot see hope with the girl child around.

In many ways, the parents are victims with no choice but to perpetrate a crime and rid themselves off the burden.

things are changing in India too. JJ had setup a girl child give away scheme. Where people who dont want a girl child can drop it off discretely in a cradle. The state takes these children, put them for adoption or take it under its care.

Such systems in govt is not a long term solution and in time will gorw ineffictive. these children may live in hostels (similar to the one you had posted a while back) and may not be aware of their rights which you and me are.

No body is born with that awareness, its about opportunities the system creates for them. We are part of the system, like it or not.

In any case, this scheme of JJ along with a concerted effort to promote self help groups has to a large extent stemmed the tide.

I am more eager to debate this issue on a socio-economic platform than as a gender platform. I dont care as much for the fact that its a female child which is put to death as I care for the fact that its a child which is put to death. Either case its bad and the societal conditions are loaded against the female child. Apart from that fact, I dont see any patriarchial hand hidden which is conspiring to put to death all females in a society.

That view point IMO is too much conspiracy loaded to be of benifit in changing the situation. If we pre-decide the patriarchial setup, it becomes a self fullfilling prophesy and would end up as a man vs woman debate. Like we see here.

That to me is just intellectual masturbation. As in you masturbate to pleasure yourself and do it intellectually. Even an intellectual effort done with the right kind of analysis as to why these things happen is way better than it just boiling down to man vs. woman.

Thats the point I wanted to make last time around and thats the point I hope to make this time around.

Apart from that, this post is a great effort and do continue on this path. I do see your effort to not make it a man vs. woman debate. But I feel you still have to be make it look much less of a rant. Afterall most people here are intelligent and their thought process can be put to better use than just countering you.. isnt it ?

tell me I am wrong..

vasu

Vasu the terrible said...

@confused - (Ref : PIG) Dude, please refrain from derailing the argument by getting into a personal slugfest. I am pretty convinced that you are an expert in that and many like me are born with week shoulders and arm. We are purely incapable of slugging dirt as effectively as you do. Peace.

I think enforcement of law in India is very very difficult. You are talking 40,000 villages in India.

"If we cant make agriculture viable, we will have socio-economic problems of unimaginable proportions" - M.S.Swaminathan (Father of the green revolution)...

IT is a big fraud... it cannot even scratch the surface of unemployment. IT cannot be the answer to all our problems. Its time we stopped fooling ourselves and all others around us.

I do agree with you that Politically_guy's argument that lets give some incentives is no long term solution. Its a start. I will help in short term. Govt. is already helping people having girl kids, and Idont think there is anything wrong in such an idea.

I however dont agree that you can dis-incentivise having male kids... I think that wont work. All ration cards are fixed with bribes. Ration cards withdrawel wont work either.

vasu

blah_blah_blogger said...

Just saw Mathrubhumi - a nation without women...

Quite a chilling movie!

IIPM Legal Unit said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Deepali said...

@confused: If you noticed, I hadn't aimed the comment only at you but at all who keep up with this annoying habit of labelling almost every post as a rant.

Feel free to judge, it doesn't faze me out or affect my intellect. Just reflects your obvious annoyance.

But it annoys me more when a person's arguments, when presented in a coherent & logical manner, are dismissed as rants, even if only partially so. It is a condescending approach.

As for the rest of your comment, I read it. I follow the comment threads here closely but I prefer to read. I'm more interested in other people's opinion since I already know my own. And it's upto me to share it, which I don't wish to at this point.

Deal with it.

confused said...

@Vasu,

I dont think I was indulging in personal slugfest, it was more like sarcasm, I guess it has not come out very well... nyways, I will try to reform my ways.

Dude, obviously economics is not your strongest subject,(is that a personal attack?), no one is claiming that IT can solve all our problems. Does that by itself make IT a fraud? So either IT solves all problems or it is a fraud....interesting..

As a along term prospect, agriculture as we carry out in India is nonsustainable. It employs 70% of our population yet prduces less than US, where 1% of the population has agriculture as its vocation.

You need industralization, ok maybe just not IT. How about manufacturing? China produces 30% of world's consumer goods..where are we?

We have decided for ourself, that agriculture is a holy cow. It is not. You have run it like a business, and offer alternatives to for farmers so they can give agriculture if they cannot a make a living out of it. That is the crux of the problem in Vidharba, people dont have any alternative.

Laws can b enforced. Raja Ram Mohan Roy campaigned for a anti sati law. He aroused public opinion in favor of it. The difference is that once law was enacted strictly imposed. Dont tell me you cant shut down ultrasound clinics who indulge prenatal sex determination. If you cant, why in the name of Pink Unicorn do we have a govt?

@Dee,

I believe good points can be by being less angry and more logical-atleast sometimes. However as I pointed out to politically incorrect guy, it is just what I feel, it has about as much value as what I feel about reservations in IIT.

No, I was not angry. I was amused. Thats how I normally reply. :)

I dont think my attitutde was condescending , but it is that very kind of attitide I rant(see, I do it all the time myself) against. Atleast, on the internet,everyone is so politically correct, even Politically incorrect guy is trying to stop female infanticide! Still one or two obviousl trolls, seem to attract so much glee...see that proves, this is our issue, proves no one can understand what we are trying to say. This draws attention away from the susbtance of what ''you'' are trying to say.

You are free not to share your thoughts with us. I just commented because, you quoted a part of my comment.

I guess we both have made ourselves clear to each other. Closed from my side.

Thanks

confused said...

@Vasu,

I dont think I was indulging in personal slugfest, it was more like sarcasm, I guess it has not come out very well... nyways, I will try to reform my ways.

Dude, obviously economics is not your strongest subject,(is that a personal attack?), no one is claiming that IT can solve all our problems. Does that by itself make IT a fraud? So either IT solves all problems or it is a fraud....interesting..

As a along term prospect, agriculture as we carry out in India is nonsustainable. It employs 70% of our population yet prduces less than US, where 1% of the population has agriculture as its vocation.

You need industralization, ok maybe just not IT. How about manufacturing? China produces 30% of world's consumer goods..where are we?

We have decided for ourself, that agriculture is a holy cow. It is not. You have run it like a business, and offer alternatives to for farmers so they can give agriculture if they cannot a make a living out of it. That is the crux of the problem in Vidharba, people dont have any alternative.

Laws can b enforced. Raja Ram Mohan Roy campaigned for a anti sati law. He aroused public opinion in favor of it. The difference is that once law was enacted strictly imposed. Dont tell me you cant shut down ultrasound clinics who indulge prenatal sex determination. If you cant, why in the name of Pink Unicorn do we have a govt?

@Dee,

I believe good points can be by being less angry and more logical-atleast sometimes. However as I pointed out to politically incorrect guy, it is just what I feel, it has about as much value as what I feel about reservations in IIT.

No, I was not angry. I was amused. Thats how I normally reply. :)

I dont think my attitutde was condescending , but it is that very kind of attitide I rant(see, I do it all the time myself) against. Atleast, on the internet,everyone is so politically correct, even Politically incorrect guy is trying to stop female infanticide! Still one or two obviousl trolls, seem to attract so much glee...see that proves, this is our issue, proves no one can understand what we are trying to say. This draws attention away from the susbtance of what ''you'' are trying to say.

You are free not to share your thoughts with us. I just commented because, you quoted a part of my comment.

I guess we both have made ourselves clear to each other. Closed from my side.

Thanks

WishfulThinker said...

I saw 99 comments and I couldn't resist rounding it off to an even 100. Yeah, I'm shallow like that. ;)But I will say that reading your posts and the comments that follow is quite an eye-opening experience. More power to you!

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ resolution: thanks daa(If you dont mind me calling you that)!
I like your analogy:P

@ ragnell: hahahahahaha @[I think the problem of... Ahem, Politically Incorrect Guy (Did you pick one that abbreviates to PIG on purpose?)]

And that is my point exactly. The fact that women are being considered as commodities is the problem here. Even the solutions proposed, lead back to the women=commodities notion, and that will not solve any problems. Worse, it will backfire on women in the long run as most things do,anyway.

@ dee: Ive added you on my msn!:D

@ yogi: I see what youre saying. But instances like this only depress me and its hard to appreciate the winds of change when millions of girls are being put to death, yeah?
But I do see what youre saying...:)

@ nath: nice observation.And my name is Megha, not Meghna...:D

@ ekta: thank you and welcome to the turf!

@ vasu: Thats just my style of writing. I appreciate your suggestion to make it look less like a "rant" but really, I am not under any contract here to write a certain way am I?
I cant change my style of writing, so Im sorry Vasu...:)
no offense wockay:P

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ wishful'drinker...*cough* I mean wishfulthinker: Hee Hee....youre not being shallow at all, and thanks alligator lover:P

vbk said...

hmmm. wat i was trying to get at was... see, if u add a 1 to a -1, it becomes a zero. right? same way. right now condition of women in society = somewhere negative, will reach zero and then move on to positive with efforts of ppl such as u :-)

vbk said...

oh my god. i had to scroll through 102 comments to type a comment. insanely popular and all

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ vbk: now I get it.....:)
like I said..I guess I was having a little bout of bain-deadness...:P

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@SRIRAM,

You lack basic netiquette and courtesy and get into the easiest thing of swearing at others ...
thank you and wishing you good luck and i do not want to have anything more to talk with
a closed minded pervert like you.

@Chandni,

You dint get the import of my statement and you havent understood my views fully. Leave developed, Europe for a moment; take Sub Saharan Africa, South America - two places with developing economies, poverty , illiteracy and patriarchy.. but NO FEMALE INFANTICIDE. My point was that this male child obsession is something beyond patriarchy and male ego stuff,something Asian in nature. I dont want to drag on this further and i stop with this.

@Miss Dildo

You are the kind of people who get me off the chair... saying get rid off all men in Bihar
this that..... thank you wishing you good luck in your project. Hitler had similar ideas on Jews and was nearly successful.You could take the lessons from him. All the best.

@Confused...

Interested in your post because you have atleast something to say by way of solution - well let us see
about them

1.Law Enforcement - are we (in India) living in a lawless nation like Zimbabwe or Iraq? We are having a a constitution, IPC, this that,a 2 million strong police force etc, so much and yet this problem is gaining strength... and if arresting a few doctors and shutting down some ultrasound clinics would solve the problem? No it wont. Remember prohibition??? Do guys stop drinking on 2nd October (when liquor shops are closed)?

2. Economic Empowerment - In 1955, Nehru made a big address in some meeting where he said that empowerment of women would be the focus of 1st five year plan.. and we are in 11th five year plan. 50 years have gone.and we have a India Shining this that.. Haryana and Punjab are wealthy today, while 50 years back,Haryana and Punjab (try talking to old timers) were poverty striken rural belts with no electricity, no industry, no schools .Has it made any difference?

3.Empowerment - Well if you are talking about Reservations in mind, i am for it... let us have reservations for women . But the women, forward caste women in particular should also then accept reservations for SC/ST and OBC and not grumble about it. Reservation does work in empowering the socially deprived people. A brilliant idea indeed.

@Resolution-

Well if empowerment should be done, we should talk about reservation for women. That is acceptable, but that should co exist with the OBC and SC/ST reservation. Well that would also mean many men losing jobs and the acceptance of concept of House-Husband by women. That would be truly revolutionary, but i am frankly not sure if Indian Women(even the educated, empowered, feminist women) are prepared to live with House-Husbands.


@Ragnell -

The long term solution that i can think of (other than the money factor) is reservation for women...
or better how about a Flat tax on every male child born? But how many men (even the liberal , progressive ones ) are ready to back their concern for girl child with hard cash?

@Nath-

My idea is always based on a concept that our society, men and women value money more than anything else, people value money even over their own personal selves. Social reform is always speeded up with money. Yes i stand by my idea.

@Vasu-
Can individuals make difference? yes, to some extent.
Men can make a difference in that they can think of marrying a woman from a poorer economic strata, no strings attached. And women too can make a difference if they begin to accept the concept of house husbands. This may sound ridiculous and funny to many but i dont find anything wrong.

@Megha-

Enuff said about feminism, patriarchy and like. I do not want to debate on them further since it is your blog and i shouldnt be questioning your views. I am all for equality of every living human in the world and absolutely for civil liberties, irrespective of gender, caste, creed, religion and like. I wish that everyone in this planet agrees to that. Our India is having two major inequalities in form of caste and gender and the way out is positive discrimination in favour of weaker castes and gender(by reservation for lower castes and incentives for girl child). That sums up my world view. Yes, i hope that the sex ratio is reversed and we should have 1200 girls for every 1000 boys by say 2050. Despite so much negatives, my instinct tells that this 3rd millenium would be a millenium for Women. Good luck.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ blah_blah_blogger: Im sorry man about missing your comment, didnt mean to, I swear!
Mathrubhoomi is sick. But belive it or not, thats the reality in parts of Haryana, Punjab and Bihar.
Chilling...its actually worse than chilling.

Sriram said...

@P.I.G - LOL.. so, is this your way of saying " OMG, I can't seem to have enough arguments against all these questions and so , I quit"?. Cuz if I'm perverted because of what I said, Boy, every fuckin human is perverted to the core.

@ Megha
Sorry for abusing the comment space, though I know you wouldn't mind :P

harry said...

nice blog :D

Yogi said...

well a start is you and me, and all the other ppl who were moved by the blog, i really dont know why ppl have to fight over a topic which clearly is gory, ugly and absolutely unacceptable, as much a reason they try and find to justify something. maybe somewhere blogging might just move the little pebble on the mountain, despite all my vehemence in your previous post about the medium..ppl need to read a post which tells them what is happening, and take it as it was meant to be, a situation, which can be corrected. Well done!

Neha said...

@politically incorrect guy: relax.. life is good!.. you'll be fine. Take a deep breath, and count back from 10 to 1.

Ragnell said...

PI Guy -- The long term solution that i can think of (other than the money factor) is reservation for women...
or better how about a Flat tax on every male child born? But how many men (even the liberal , progressive ones ) are ready to back their concern for girl child with hard cash?


How about a reversal of cultural attitudes towards women? This is what Feminism is for. It's not only for the surface solution, but for digging at the root of the problem. The root of the problem is that People are being treated like Things. Any solution that revolves solely on economics perpetuates that problem by encouraging the cultural attitude of treating People like Things.

What India (and America) needs is Education and Awareness.

You seem to believe that all people only think with their pocketbooks, I'm more optimistic. I think most people basically want to be good, but there's a lot of crap in their way. I think if they were Aware of the attitudes and their harmful effects, Aware of the Root of the problem, the attitude that leads to treating People like Things, they will consciously cut down on that.

The best long-term solution is to start young. Bring Feminism to the schools, All of the Sshools. As this happens, Bring Feminism to the public eye, to the open. Get the older generations. Ideally, and this is the most difficult, Feminism must be brought to the Religious Spaces, because many people form their attitudes through religion.

useless said...

This Moran article reminded me of the movie Matrubhoomi.I read it thrice but couldn't actually get the tone - Was it sarcasm and an extreme case of satire.Was she being real?

Let us forget Usilampatti and Haryana for a while and talk about Chennai,Bangalore,Hyderabad - IT hubs and all.

-Ask every modern working married woman in India as to who spent money for their wedding - Her dad or his Dad.

This should give us a clue about the gender disparity reasons even among city sophisticates.All those guys who post
here, I ask but one question.When you get married,Would you be men enough to take care of atleast half the wedding expenses?I am sure there are many such folks out there but the men who don't under parental pressure outdo the men who do..No I am not even talking about dowry and stuff since I am assuming that we are all decent folks.

Now why all this? Ok,Imagine if I have 2 kids - a son and a daughter.I spend 2 times Rs.x for each of them to educate them.Then if one of them happens to be a girl I have to spend $Y (which usually runs into lakhs) to get her married.hmm Would I rather have a boy or a girl..Now what do we do to address this urban scenario?

For now I shall only say Punkster WTG with this post :)

Nath said...

And my name is Megha, not Meghna...:D

Whoops, sorry. Slip of the keyboard -- I have a cousin called Meghna.

Deepali said...

Megha: I added you too- different account. The other is a filter of sorts - not for friends of course!

If still lost, just draw the connection between 'dance' in both email addys :)

Vasu the terrible said...

@confused - Sarcasm helps if it is self targeted (self deprecating). Let me see you make fun of yourself. Else its an attempt to bellitle someone. In that case it is a slug affair and there I am a big loser..Me putting it to rest.

I think I said, we need to have enforcement. But enforcement is not the key, not the critical area of focus.

Pre-natal sex determination is a subtle crime when you compare with other hinious crimes.. Let me illustrate. I am in the medical diagnostics business now and I have met couples who say in Indian small towns it is damm easy to find out if your baby is girl or not. the docs dont give a certificate that the child is girl. They just scratch the left nose. Everyone knows that a scratch on the left nose is an indication of girl child and all they go there for is to figure out if the itch is on the left nose or the right nose.. How will you enforce law here ? The overtly criminal guy you can nab, but covertly criminal ? you cant do anything.

The police force doesent fight crime. Their brief is to maintain law and order. As long as law and order is maintained and relative peace prevails , its all fine. How can you then stop female infanticide. Look at the TN example.

The female infanticide incidents first came to light in the early 90s when JJ was still in power. She immediately anounced an award of Rs. X for a birth of girl child and set up a cradle system for the girl child. When she again came to power she made education for girl child free till class 12.. Now there is even a proposal to make the girl child's college education free. She has given every family with a girl child a cycle. It makes good political sense for her since these girls will grow to 18 year olds who vote and women are behind amma in a big way.

Parallelly she infused micro-credit financing in Self help groups. The key to rural economy is availability of credit. I am not too swayed by macro economic indicators like 8% growth rate, rich state etc. etc. They are all collective figures of the state and dont talk about wealth distribution.

Micro credit financing was a big hit in bangladesh pioneered by Grameen bank. Today for a small loan the farmer doesent go to the moneylender, but asks his wife to get the loan from the SHG at affordable rates.

Why do you think TN has less than 100 suicides by farmers, than in karnataka which has touched 5000 this year alone ?

I strongly disagree with you about your comments on education and manufacturing. The Hindu came up with an article on Indian economic developement in its sunday column "Insight" where they compared the capital required for creating 100 jobs... the Fixed capital reqmts in manufacturing is extremely high to create those 100 jobs. In case of agriculture the fixed capital reqmt is not that high (somewhere to the factor of one tenth of that of manufacturing) but the key issues are credit availability and support systems (mktg and cold storage).

MSS himself has said that the SHG and microcredit financing is key to improving rural economy.

The SHG model is now being adopted by big banks (nationalised and pvt) to finance micro-credit schemes. Small loans upto 2-3 lakhs at affordable interest rates (which is higher than home loans or investment loans, but much much lower than the loanshark's). These loans are given collateral free and can be availed for buying seeds, buying a cow or marrying a daughter..

Its a legitimate business and banks are juicing up for it. Till now there was no mechanism to monitor, collect and manage these loans. The SHG investment the govt has made has created a vehicle not only to disburse loans but also to collect and manage loans.

Moreover SHG are also underwritten by the govt. They take care of drought relief, crop insurance and in some cases even health insurance.

The key benifit of SHG is it acts as a vehicle for social change.

SHG workers activly participate in immunisation, mother care and pregnancy monitoring. If someone in the village is pregnant, they are noted and efforts are made to educate the mother and father for all aspects of healthcare. They also from time-to-time give a stern warning if they suspect any move to abort the baby. Since SHG act as affordable financing agencies, their local power in influencing practices are high.

It came in the news how one family which aborted their girl child was socially ostracised, economically marginalised in the community. They moved out of the village totally chastised by the experience and at the end of it, they got arrested. All thanks to the vigorous efforts of the SHGs.. Ofcourse you need to watch Raj news or Kairali news to see that. Your mainstream suit clad Burkha dutt's will talk about only metro related issues. I am not too surprised as to a sudden awakening about some to this issue. It came later than even Jha's cinematic effort. What surprises me however is the total lack of followup knowledge as to what happened in tamil nadu more than 14 years back ? By talking about uslilampatti asif it happened yesterday, are we presenting ourselves as outdated newsmongers ?

You cant talk of social change without economic change. People all over the countriside want to buy stuff. They want to live a better life. Ofcourse the success depends on the kind of people who are in the SHGs.. Uncorrupt and the common man himself. Unlike political bodies like panchayats, SHGs are apolitical and dont have electoral contests the way we see and are that much more difficult to subvert.

I donot therefore agree with your manufacturing instead of agriculture argument. 50% of the population directly depend on agriculture. You cant put them vernight on lathes and machine shops. The manufacturing industry is not all labour intensive. It is high capital intensive. India is not china where you can deport some disgruntled farmer to XingXiang province and artificially create a Shangai by force.

@megha - As I said it is a suggestion and ofcourse there is no contract. See if it makes sense. If making it less of a rant doesent make sense, chuck it ? No need to feel sorry... Just absorb whatever suggestions you like and chuck what you dont. You are truly answerable to none... And no, I am bad at sarcasm... See I have such a puny week shoulder :((... and I cant even slug a mosquito across the room forget the heavier dirt..

@ politically_correct_guy - Every person can make a difference. Even those who blog as long as you realise your responsibility as a blogger and contribute positively. I am terribly put off if people get ossified in their set positions and are too stuck up to explore. They end up not seeing the other side.

I still think you are dwelling in the man vs. woman argument. The kind of thing you are talking about is more suited for the urban india man. Rural issues are vastly different... "Man cooking inside and woman accepting househusband". This seems too trivial. It again strengthens the hidden-patriatchial-hand theory some want to champion.

It may make one feel better and as I said, thats plain intellectual masturbation. Nothing wrong in that though as long as we dont fool ourselves to think we are changing the world...

Artful Badger said...

wow! 116 comments! I need to be fast next time to comment!
This whole thing I find very interesting from a purely demand-supply point of view. Creating a society where there are way too many men than women will -
1. Increase 'demand' for women.
2. Whatever you do, a lot of men are going to go unmarried.
Eventually, women will become so scarce and in such high demand that some guy is going to say 'We should only have women and no men', and eventually the population will renormalize. If I sound like I was discussing the demand and supply of soap, I didn't mean to :)..

ladyparadox said...

sigh. finally someone blogged about it. i'm no feminist, but this shit has to STOP. high time.

FJ said...

Hats off again Megha.

dee iyer said...

hey you.
nice.
wont stop so easyl. not till we make them understand that its not a bad thing to be born without a penis.
it wont. i want it to. but its a hard thing to do.

Anonymous said...

women discriminate against women? mothers against daughters...change your thinking and you will change future. Good to see you come long ways from November start. I was the first one to comment on your blog.

RefleXtion said...

All that ‘enthu’ is dying out!! Can I restart the debate PHULEEZE?

@ Anyone who asked P.I.G to take a chill pill

The dude is entitled to his opinion. And this is a forum to voice it and he did. His perspective did add the other dimension without which this post would not be as interesting.

@ P.I.G

"Well if empowerment should be done, we should talk about reservation for women."

Agree with you to some extant but not whole-heartedly, I am afraid, I do see solutions WITHOUT reservations.

"That is acceptable, but that should co exist with the OBC and SC/ST reservation."

I may sound Idealistic but the whole reservation system according to me is BS. I believe we are creating a rift unnecessarily within the society through reservations when in fact it should be based purely on merit. The real world jobs are very competitive and global. You better be upto the mark if you want to make a name for yourself. A reservation is like a sympathy vote! But that's jumping into another debate so I'll stop there.

"Well that would also mean many men losing jobs and the acceptance of concept of House-Husband by women. That would be truly revolutionary, but i am frankly not sure if Indian Women (even the educated, empowered, feminist women) are prepared to live with House-Husbands."

A revolution??? Whatever gave you the idea that I even remotely suggested this? Sure your not taking this personally? Kidding…...Empowerment does not mean men losing jobs dude but then again if a female can do a particular job better yeah why not? I was O N L Y talking about equal opportunity. In fact if you read my comment again the trail of thought was -People believe a girl child is a burden…more opportunities for a girl child could change that…female empowerment may be the answer. I really don’t get where this “House- Husbands” concept was derived from man.

@ Yogi

Whaaaaaazaaaaaaaap? Join me for this BLANK NOISE project thingie in Chennai man.

@ Megha
‘Daa’ is daawnraait cool wit me, Homie!!!

Deepali said...

Resolution: Kudos to you for the anti-reservation stance and without which women have and can risen up.

Sue said...

I will not carry on the bloodline of the family -- Tell that to the Jews, I say :-) Or the Kerelites.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ sue:
Kerala is a matriarchal society only in name.
The state of women in Kerala is no better.
:D

politically_incorrect_guy said...

@Ragnell-

Do you think that people follow whatever they learn in schools? How about that lesson on "drinking is evil"??? does anyone really care a damn? Money does make a difference. Always. That is how world works.


@Vasu - Individuals can make a difference - this includes women too... women are also a part of a problem (be it dowry or female foeticide ) and they must also be a part of the solution.

@resolution-

Reservation is not a surgery but a band aid for the weak (be it SC/ST/MBC or Females) and it is a good temporary solution to empower the socially weak. 50 years back, it was a curse to be a called SC, but today if you are an SC, you are envied by everyone. that is the change that reservation and positive discrimination has brought (leaving aside its negative impact for a moment)

As for house husbands - well let us not fool ourself - jobs are limited , high paying jobs are not in billions but very few. Some women drop out of careers and do baby sitting at home and live off their male partners' wages, and how about seeing some men getting to do that? Given that women and men are endowed with same mental abilities, this should not be ruled out.


@Megha - The dowry numbers one hears from malyalee friends are shocking (to say the least). That is one reason why i beleived the whole thing (pref to boys) to be an Asian cultural aspect, dowry is so much Asian phenomena.

Aranyi said...

Have you seen Matrubhoomi starring Tulip Joshi? Its based on the same concept - a womanless state.

Tanushree said...

Creating a society where there are way too many men than women will -
1. Increase 'demand' for women.
2. Whatever you do, a lot of men are going to go unmarried.
Eventually, women will become so scarce and in such high demand that some guy is going to say 'We should only have women and no men', and eventually the population will renormalize. If I sound like I was discussing the demand and supply of soap, I didn't mean to :)..


If this is not sarcasm or an attempt at humor, then let me tell you why this will NOT work:

Creating a society where there are way too many men than women will -
1. Increase 'demand' for women.
2. Whatever you do, a lot of men are going to go unmarried.
Eventually, women will become so scarce and so higly in demand, that it will be a risk for a woman to even step out of the home, unless accompanied by able-bodied protectors. It may even get to a point where it is not safe to leave women alone at home, because someone may break in and "steal" them. Much like ostentatious jewellery, which is stored in bank vaults and only worn at special occasion, at risk to life and limb.

Why is this? Because men don't need women only to "marry and have babies", they need them at the more basic level, to have sex with. And if the sexual frustration does not find a normal outlet, then of course, it will lead to violence and people taking what they want by force.

A solution like the ancient Greeks, which promoted homesexual relationships to control population and release the sexual frustration will of course not work in our land of the Kamasutra, where even heterosexual relations between a man and his legally married wife are a thing of shame and not meant to be spoken about in public.

I suppose you now see why I could not look at your post as anything but a joke.

Anonymous said...

@politically_incorrect_guy: Re: House husbands, I know it is a difficult thing to do but my husband and I have done it, though for a short time (4-5 months) when I relocated to a different city because of a higher-paying job and we wanted to make the move together, so he quit his job and moved with me. Since we have already done it once, and not found it distasteful or anything, we probably could do the same again if we ever got around to having a baby, since he is so much better at handling the little beings than I am.