7/29/06

And this one is for the bleach.

Incident 1:

Conversation between my aunt and me, at 14.

Aunt: Look at you. You look like a piece of charred karuvaadu (fish, dried to a crisp). At least wear sun-screen when you’re out playing b-ball in the sun with your thuggy friends.

Me: Who the hell cares? I like my skin this way. I’m not going to touch that icky sunscreen. Besides you know how crappy and rebellious my skin is. It loves to break out at any given opportunity, and I’m NOT going to give it that satisfaction.

Aunt: illai kanna (Tamil endearment, translates loosely to - no, dear), you used to be so fair and pretty. In the last three years, your skin has been exposed to the elements way too much and your skin color has become progressively darker. I don’t even recognize you anymore; you look like a dark boy (as if being dark was an insult).

Me: *stunned, hurt silence.*

Incident 2:

Conversation between my aunt and me, at 20.

Aunt: What happened to you? Did you camp out in the sun all summer?

Me: Huh? Why? I worked all summer with high-school kids! That doesn’t qualify as camping out in the sun all summer. So where are you going with this?

Aunt: You’ve become so dark di; I suggest you stay at home for the most part. The heat in Madras is merciless. I don’t want you looking like a piece of burnt wood.

Me: *Speechless*

My aunt, who is usually a paragon of sense and anti-prejudice (most of the time, at least), always caves in to what I call the unfair and not-so-lovely syndrome (I know it’s a cheap play on words, but go with the flow, will ya?) which most Indians seem to be afflicted with. And they indulge in this curious form of racism so seamlessly, almost as if on autopilot. You will hear someone praise Bipasha Basu’s beauty and her flawless olive complexion and then berate their own daughter for wasting time on useless athletic activities which will only result in her getting a dark tan (the horror), in the same breath. Besides, she has to get married no? You can’t possibly fill out a matrimonial ad along the lines of very tanned, athletic, loves team sports and competitive swimming.

In a twisted little way, the words that make up the matrimonial ad become the girl’s life. She must not do this or that for fear of deviating from the values that make up the archetypal ideal Indian bride i.e. Fair, beautiful, cultured, educated and homely girl from a good (insert religion/caste/sub-caste here) family and so on.


I mean, isn’t asking to specify your skin tone for a matrimonial ad, the most blatant and conspicuous form of racism around? And god forbid if you’re actually dark skinned, you get slapped with a weak ‘wheatish’ tag because oh-wail-no-one-will-marry-you-now. Please tell me if you have seen anyone calling themselves ‘dark’ in their matrimonial profile. Even a person with obviously dark skin will call themselves ‘wheatish’ (I have no idea as to what this term means), because societal pressure and the unhealthy obsession for fair skin deems it so. I will also go out on a limb and say that it affects the psyche of the woman more than the psyche of a man. When an Indian woman looks for one or two likable qualities in a future mate she is labeled difficult and unreasonable. But a man can have no personality, no hair and have bad teeth, and still expect a woman who is ‘very fair, tall, cultured and beautiful’ and that is considered perfectly lucid and unobjectionable. But I digress.

How did this anomalous ‘light skinned = beautiful’ bigotry come into place? Is this an influence of the ill-fated colonial hangover? In all probability I guess that’s what it is. This over romanticized blond hair, blue/green eyes, and aquiline features as the quintessential beauty ideal has been burnt into most Indian’s brains. I mean, didn’t we all learn nursery rhymes like,

Chubby cheeks, dimple chin,
Rosy lips, teeth within,
Curly hair, very fair,
Eyes are blue, lovely too,
Teacher's pet, is that you?
Yes, Yes, Yes.

in kindergarten?

Considering the fact that most Indians aren’t blue-eyed or very fair, this rhyme is laughable at best, but what effect does it have on kids in school? Without going to the other extreme and acting all OMGenglishnurseryrhymesareaccursed! a la Madhya Pradesh, wouldn’t it be better if the archaic and schmaltzy nursery rhymes we learnt as kids were revamped? Or better still, how about introducing new nursery rhymes in english with Indian characters? Personally I found them banal and idiotic even in school and if things worked my way (heh) I would just do away with them altogether, but that’s just my opinion.

I have always seen, while growing up in India that the most popular girl in my grade would also have the fairest skin, irrespective of how she looks. I have nothing against fair skinned people, but judging a person’s looks based on skin color alone is utterly moronic and ignorant.

When I was in 8th grade, our seniors, the 9th graders held an unofficial (hyuk), highly cloak and dagger kind of ranking system for the girls (only ninth graders) based on physical appearance alone. And I personally knew most of the girls in their ranks, but what took me completely by surprise at least back then, was the girl who was given the title ‘prettiest of 9th grade’. She was um, fair skinned to the point of being extremely pale and wan looking, and that was it. She wasn’t pretty by any given means and I know that a ranking system made by pubescent 14-15 year old boys is a little skeevy but it makes an interesting point as to how this fairness obsession transcends age barriers in India.

Numerous times while growing up, I’ve had people asking my mother as to how she was going to find a groom for me in the future as I reveled in ‘un-lady like’ athletic activities and a direct side-effect of that was extremely tanned skin. They even went as far as “I will pray for her to shed her tan and become fair and pretty again. Why don’t you stop her from all these sports?” My mother always used to answer scathingly, making sure that the officious question was never asked again. So, more power to her for that. What makes matters worse is the fact that you can openly taunt and insult a person in India by calling them ‘dark’. I have never been at the receiving end of this insult but I have seen it happen a gazillion times at least. I have heard words like kaalu or karuppu thrown around as taunts albeit casually and that makes it all the more shocking.

In the same vein I'd also like to mention the odious fair and lovely ads. I can’t even pick an ad I abhor the most; almost all of them are alike in their hatefulness. Even if I HAD to pick, I would probably say that the most appalling advert is the one where the syrupy father is beyond depressed because he is tired of earning money for his family. To add to his woes, he has a dark skinned daughter who earns a paltry salary. In frustration, he famously exclaims If only I had a son. Enter fair and lovely, the answer to everyone’s problems. No points for guessing where this ad heads next. Can an advertisement BE more racist and openly sexist? I think not.

Does fair skin confer some sort of um…for lack of a better word, entitlement in India?

If that’s the case, then excuse me while I drown myself in a pool of Emami Naturally Fair Pearl Cream. (Wonder fairness system!)

*snort*

Oh and men, you need not feel left behind (yay!). I present to you Fair and Handsome - The worlds number 1 fairness cream for men.

Thanks.

233 comments:

1 – 200 of 233   Newer›   Newest»
Yogi said...

haha, i still havent forgotten that nursery ryhme, for other reasons, but i know what you mean, one of my friends protest over the first 'fair and lovely' ad which came out and actually managed to take it off screen, not that the new ones are any better!!

i defnitely have no bias with skin color, some of the most beautiful women in the world are dark skinned!!:) ive seen worse matrimonial ads than that tho, you tamed it down!

Oh and as for the famous english litreature classifications, the opp for men is tall, dark and handsome, and somewhere ppl never knew that the dark referred to the hair and not to the skin!!so there goes that fairness cream out of the window heh

Vijayeta said...

That Fair and Lovely ad is the grossest one amongst the lot. Not just that, the daughter becomes really fair and gets a job as an air-hostess and feels validated when she buys her dad a cup of coffee :|
Fair and Handsome doesn't have ads like this! I'd love to see a dark skinned man instead of the woman who becomes an air hostess. What would the guy have done? Would the father still be grumbling about money and the fact that his son's dark and hence undesirable?

AYTIDA said...

my roomie here uses fair and handsome!!!! :))

gk said...

A very valid point made. In India being fair gives you at times unfair advantages... It is same as getting tan (golden-skin fad) in west... Every region have their own preferences, like negros love big butts either male or female for which 'mothers'(females) in Botswana, south africa, and african countries make their children sleep in spoon shape... I don't even want to remember torturing little-feet preferences in China, big lips (earned by piercing hanging weights on lower lips), long neck fetish (through springs) on some other world islands...???

A little drop in your information... Almost 30% of fairness cream users were men (Emami product survey before developing fair & handsome)... Fairness market is worth more than Rs. 1500 cr (courtesy www.blonnet.com)...

"Prof Shallini Bharat (female), a socio-psychologist with the Tata Institute of Social Sciences, believes this complex is a result of the country's history. "India's rulers have always been fair, be it the Aryans in the early centuries or Europeans in later years. Fairness is equated with superiority, power and influence, therefore the preference for lighter skin." (courtesy BBC.com)

I have taken this from same article of BBC from where your whole post seems to be inspired from, including similar start with use of sunscreen, wheatish skin of indians, fair & lovely comparisions blah blah blah... Guess we might have a case of cereberal plagiarism here...


|||"unfair and not-so-lovely syndrome most Indians seem to be afflicted with. And they indulge in this curious form of racism so seamlessly"|||

Sorry to break news but you are also a racist, if you prefer intellect over beauty. You are also racist if you think of having male partner with hair, with great white teeth, and impressive personality... Why girls with pathetic personalities should have access to guys who are better...??? Your use of racism theory to target indian males is pathetic...

May be tomorrow you'll write about racist food cuisines of Indians, then go on that how indians prefer chillies over italian seasonings... And how bad organo seasoning makers feel about this prejudice... So just stop making comparisions between personal choices and racism...


|||"When an Indian woman looks for one or two likable qualities in a future mate she is labeled difficult and unreasonable. But a man can have no personality, no hair and have bad teeth, and still expect a woman who is ‘very fair, tall, cultured and beautiful’ and that is considered perfectly lucid and unobjectionable."|||

Right... Poor women, how much they have to compromise in this world... Girls are all innocent, always victim and accept whatever parents offers them...

Even girls who can scare away bull with their faces should get Akshay kumar or Sharukh khan... Girls with little common sense, even meagre intellectual capacity and timepass degrees should get best looking guy not to mention with impressive personality and tons of cash...

Have a look on groom ads when these fair-intoxicated, racist indian guys have to put their salary figures, height, fair-skinned (or otherwise sharp features), about cars, houses in matrimonial ads... How dare these penis-driven men even think of getting a woman with intelligence or fair skin or sharp features...???

You contradict yourself here... If a girl wants qualities then she is independent but if a man shows preferences then he is racist indian...


|||"9th graders held an unofficial (hyuk), highly cloak and dagger kind of ranking system"|||
What we'll have tomorrow, based on 9th grade minds...??? Infact these teen's views play so much important role in your prejudiced posts... For God's sake those students are still kids of 15 yrs with fueling harmones & dormant wisdom...
Repeat it after me "9th graders are kids and I'll not be a victim of views of 9th graders"...


I guess feminist view point of all-men-are-bastards is playing a role here too...

Grafxgurl said...

aaaaaaahhh.. just another reason why India is so full of contradictions ...AGAIN!!

i have a few fair skinned friends who havent yet gotten married because they werent FAIR ENOUGH...woow..... give a person cream and he wants milk...

sigh. what really IS the problem is that indians feel the foreigners they see on tv and in real life are much more prettier and therefore MUST be getting the cream of men available to settle down with...and SOOOOOO. there fore.. LETS whiten up our bunch so we can all be happy too!!

ive seen young mothers compare their kids' complexions!!!! isnt that nasty!!! i mean..that poor kid!!!

WishfulThinker said...

Its all a bunch of BS. Grah!

Kaushik Gopalan said...

Megha,

a. Linked this post on my blog.

b. Thought of this when I read gk's comment:

Would you go out with somebody who was from a remote village in North India, who had really bad English, but who was otherwise impeccable?

Not saying that you won't, or even that you should, just curious that's all.

:)

Sravanthi said...

This is such a sad reality. It's quite common to hear "She has such beautiful features. Pity she is dark"

For god's sake why is it a pity???

I abhor the concept of fairness creams as such. It is sick. When I voice my opinion about this people tend to nod along sympathetically because I am dark skinned myself. It pisses me off to no end.

And as you said even seemingly sensible, intelligent and open minded people fall into this dark is ugly trap.

God, how can someone have arguements as stupid as gk? Waiting for ypur kick ass rebuttal!

Sriram said...

ok, i'm completely ignoring gk's comments. too stupid and way too long and I bet he contradicts himself in atleast three or four times.

On to the post,
"very tanned, athletic, loves team sports and competitive swimming." OK Meghs, swayamvar time, don't you think? :P

Seriously though, i don't think i even need to state how much i hate the "wheatish" skin look. Time for me to ogle at Nandita Das again. Anyone who says she ain't beautiful because she's dark will be summarily executed. no questions asked. And she's way too beautiful compared to Sushmita Sen even.

(Yes, me all groggy in the morning thanks to a few beers in a bar).

Aishwarya said...

...and all the while, some of us are trying to get a tan to hide our dark circles...

shark said...

Anybody "fair" is "beautiful"!
"Azhagaa irukka... nalla color", is the first sentence that comes out whenever people see a fair lady.

Matrimonial ads, the less said the better! Those guys will be darker than a charcoal.. but would want "very fair, slim and beautiful girl"!!!!!!

Rohini said...

Much as I hate to admit it, I agree with part of what GK said. Beauty ideals across cultures in various stages of emancipation are almost as bad (and sometimes worse) as the fairness bias in India. In the West, women are starving themselves into nothingness so that they can match up to the Hollywood-created super-thin ideal of beauty. Atleast the pursuit of fairness is not life-threatening or harmful in the way that the search for the perfect skin tan could end in skin cancer...

In the end, it falls upon parents and others who influence the minds of young girls such that their self-esteem is not completely tied up with conforming to these unrealistic beauty ideals. Dove is doing some excellent work along these lines...check it out

gk said...

Stupid: Unreasoned Thinking (Conclusions without supporting evidence)
Faith: Belief in something without evidence
(Courtesy: The Religion War)

"Have faith and be Stupid"


@ Sravanthi

(A dialogue between GK & Sravanthi)
GK: Everyone likes attractive faces. In india emphasis is more on fairness...
Sravanthi: Megha Mommy, please kick bad boy troll gk... he hurted my feelings...boo hoo...!!!

She is not your mommy... If you don't like anything then you should speak up...

Stupid arguments...??? Tell me where my 'conclusions' didn't meet respective reasons...???

But I think I know your problem...
Insecurity at it's best... You are so insecure about the way your of your dark skin, otherwise why you even bother about fairness cream if you were not insecure... I pity people whom you 'trap' with your silly questions because whether they answer yes or no, in both ways you'll be depressed...

There are guys also about whom it is said "he is smart but is short", but have you ever raised issue of increase height ads...??? I'd love to see mate-choosing patterns of so called open-minded people like you...



@ Sriram

Sunny boy! I place a bet if you can find 3-4 times where I contradict myself... Give it your best shot...!!!

Too long comment...!!! Baby boy, stop trying to read because it'll require application of brains, so go back to rabbit...

Side note: I like Sushmita Sen who looks so smart most of times, unlike rabbit tooth Nandita Das...

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ yogi: I know eh? I toned down the matrimonial ad example completely, feel free to provide examples :)

@ vij: How are fair and handsome ads? Ive not seen any. Im quite sure that they arent as bad as the godafwul fair and lovely ads.
:-/

@ aytida: ROFL!

@ gk: how tiresome are you! ill answer your comment later.

@ grafx: Ive had some of my friends moms compare their kids skin with mine while growing up! ARGH!

@ wishfulthinker: I know! I feel your pain! :(

@ kaushik: Oh my! Are you asking me to wade through the mire of my dating history?

*wails*

@ sravanthi dasari: first of all, I love the fact that you have identified certain points which I wanted to include in the post, but I left it out for some vague reason.

I have heard that "shes so beautiful, but dark" nonsense statement thrown around so often, by seemingly liberal people and it shocks me!

ha ha,I dont think youll have to wait long:)(wrt gk's rebuttal).

@ sriram: ada paavi! swayamvar aa? onnaku yean da vambhu? free a kalyanam saapaadu saapardhuku ippadi oru master plan aa? :P

@ aishwarya: *rolls in mirth*

@ shark: "Azhagaa irukka... nalla color"

that statement makes you mad as hell doesnt it? :(

@ rohini: Interesting. I completely agree that America with its almost 'anorexic' hollywood starlets as an example for the ideal body type has its own pressing body image issues to consider.

But that really doesnt negate or invalidate the point I was trying to make. The Americans-are-worse-off argument is pointless only because it is equal to saying that 'it is ok to not fight for womens rights in India, since women in Africa have it worse off. '(I still maintain that I agree with you completely on America, but that doesnt take away the crux of this post does it :D)

Oh and please read this

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ gk: quit the personal attacks on other bloggers. None of them have attacked you personally, they have only criticised your comment. So-quit-the-personal-attacks!

gk said...

@ Megha

"too long, too stupid, oh god how can gk put together such stupid comments..." Tell me where you think people critisized my comment, other than personality of my comments... I never start on people... I don't pick any blogger and start targeting...

There is a way to critisize but people at times forget it... but when I simply respond in same tone, they can't take that... Despite seeing at times their utterly foolish comments, unfair conclusions I never pour my viewpoint over them...

But it is very hard for me to resist temptation to atleast align those who pick me personally...

Yes I'm tiresome... but why you find me tiresome...??? Think it on why 'you' find me tiresome... Do not ponder over why I'm tiresome...

Jim said...

Yes, you have a valid point or three in here, but I sometimes wonder why you have to drag the sexist thing into every little point you try to make. This would have made for much better reading if you quit taking pot shots at guys at the drop of a hat.

Nahuatl said...

I am so out of words :-S
I "felt" so many points.. and alos realized others which I am still following blindly. Time to change! ;)

Jammu said...

My wife's cousins say I should spend every waking moment getting a tan because I'm so pale. So I'm on the flip side I guess.

Anonymous said...

Haha...Seen everything and much more whilst growin up with sis! :) Was infact thinking about the very same F&L ad in the midst of your blog...
and so the irony of the white girl spending $$$ on tanning sessions whilst the "wheatish" girl does the same with emami eh! :))

Regards,
Guru

Kaushik Gopalan said...

"Azhagaa irukka... nalla color"

Why is this so offensive? I think everybody has a right to define beauty their own way, however one dimensional or shallow we might think it is.

Are we really upset that people think that fair is beautiful? I don't think we should be.

I do think we should be upset about the fact people use this definition to pressure others into altering their lifestyle.

"Dont play sport, you will become dark"

"Go on a crash diet, you are too plump for somebody to marry you."

I think people who say these things are an absolute disgrace.

Grafxgurl said...

lol...just reading up on the comments here..this GK guy seems to be an intelligent person....and i think he likes antagonising people just for fun...i think he's bored... so dont think too much of it..ignore his comments and dont reply..dont even read his blog.

@GK ...youre smart....lol... youre VERY smart....youre also a fugly FUGLY person..on the inside i mean.. ahem.

Yogi said...

@jim

hey somewhere i think you misinterpreted it, because she starts off with her aunt being her first incident..i think this article definitely isnt a pot shot at guys, but somewhere is an offshoot of the mindless inhibitions indians are programmed to believe in :)

Urban Bourbon Ninja said...

There's an explanation for this. there really is, its got to do with the circle of life, as explained by Gautam Buddha. Really. But i'm too preoccupied to get into it.

There really is.

gk said...

@ Grafxgurl

(Fugly: Fucking Ugly)

What... Where part of world you come from... There is no blog of mine linked here... Read what Megha wrote that 'Quit personal attacks on bloggers'...??? Can you read that...??? Stop playing your Mutt & Jeff game (you are smart, but ugly) on me...

You are anatogonizing my faith that women have brains...

Comment wasn't even directed for you so stop meddling... Discuss the post, debate over comment or just shut-up if you can't understand anything...

Vijayeta said...

GK's comments just strengthen my belief that some people are just so opinionated and angst ridden that they completely miss the point in any arguement. Often, they're too dumb and impatient to read it all and get the context in which it's meant to be. Instead, picking on a few keywords and forming your ENTIRE page long argument about it.
This is a personal post, with instances and incidents from Megha's life and childhood, about HER aunt and HER school. If you generalise it, it's totally your own doing and your warped theory. What I see here is that all the other women who've commented seem to relate to it in some way or other. It's sad but true that Indian women have to be "fair" and "slim". Every little colony in India will have at least one or two "Beauty Parlors and Slimming Clinics." I dont know what happens at Slimming Clinics, but i do know a lot of women who've spent a lot of time and money expecting great results which never came. It just drove them further into depression about their self-image.
On the other hand, as someone who's from the entertainment industry, I know what goes behind ad campaigns like Dove where they use plus sized "real" women. It's a smart marketing ploy to get women to notice a brand that's been a little ignored due to the presence of other hipper brands. We girls are a sucker for such advertising! We go all ga-ga over it etc. While the company laughs all the way to the bank telling the world, "Look we used fat women in our campaigns. We respect women and care for them!" I mean...HELLO! Nothing can be more demeaning. And ads like this, be it for men's products or women's, always always commodify the gender they're targeting. Fair and Handsome is a relatively new product, but it commodifies men too. Albeit slightly differently.
The gist of all matrimonial ads (barring a few exceptions) is that while men emphasise on physical beauty and not that much on career, women are simply asking for security, in terms of a good career and decent looks! Which I think is fair enough.

maleficent said...

A few questions for GK

"Discuss the post, debate over comment or just shut-up if you can't understand anything..."
Where are your manners?

You are anatogonizing my faith that women have brains...
Where is your spelling? Ignore that... Where is your grammar??

Stupid arguments...??? Tell me where my 'conclusions' didn't meet respective reasons...???
Please condone some lapses - I obviously couldn't possibly point every single one! I'll miss a few I'm sure, but here goes.

Prof Shallini Bharat (female), a socio-psychologist with the Tata Institute of Social Sciences, believes this "complex is a result of the country's history. "India's rulers have always been fair, be it the Aryans in the early centuries or Europeans in later years. Fairness is equated with superiority, power and influence, therefore the preference for lighter skin." (courtesy BBC.com)

Is this comment of yours supposed to support the fair skin cause? Nazi Germany had scientists explaining to the world how Aryans were a superior race and Jews inferior thus the holocaust. So about a 75 years ago would you be a Nazi? Social Darwinism has been used to propagate a lot of ills. Could you please use your mind and not spout inanely simplistic interpretations of evolutionary mechanics - simplistic interpretations that you'd normally only find on the shelves of juvenile pop science.

Sorry to break news but you are also a racist, if you prefer intellect over beauty.

Pray tell me how?So what is your argument? There is a race which is beautiful and then there is a race that is intelligent.So Megha prefers men from the Race of the Intelligent? I am quite lost here. Also, to which third race do you belong? Snide, but I can't help it. I am a woman too ;) Dark at that. My insecurities have turned into mordant bile. I have to spew it out at somebody. How nice of you to be so daft and jejune. You are such an appropriate target.

WishfulThinker said...

Leddies and Rowdies,
Welcome to the 83rd edition of The Comment Wars!! right here at your favourite place to get all the action, raw and unedited, with no punches pulled!!

(I just couldn't resist this comment Megha. I mean, I tried really hard but in the end I just had to give in to temptation! :D)

indianpeppone said...

@Vijayeta : "while men emphasise on physical beauty and not that much on career, women are simply asking for security, in terms of a good career and decent looks! Which I think is fair enough." A tad hypocritical arnt v???seemed from that comment that women want looks and security, while men want only looks....

Doesnt JIM have a point that the male bashing was unnecessary in this post???

suryakannan said...

hi, how r u? awesome post! It brought me back some memories.When i was a kid, i was usually compared with my cousins for having a darker complexion, worse still whenever i used to sit with them for watching movies the elders in my family would compare that handsome hunk with my cousin bro and the enchanting actress with my cousin sis, but the trouble starts when they show a farmer ploughing in the fields, and that would unopposedly be me!!!!

At tht time it was hurting but now i jus scoff at their ignorance!

gk said...

@ Vijayeta

Did you have patience to read my comment...??? Did you get my point in my comment or you were dumb like 'me'...???

You failed to see sexiest generalizations in her post... You failed to see that even men can have as innocent dreams as women about marriage... You also failed to see that when fairness is considered desirable in indian society, then why common men shouldn't desire it... And you also failed to see how blog-author's aunt, her mother told her about fairness but how blame finally bestowed upon men for his desires...

Why women want to have 1-2 likable qualities yet catstrate men for his desires...??? Tell me why women are considered morally superior to men while making marriage choices...??? Aren't you opinionated too because when you couldn't agree with me, you just categorized me into being opinionated...??? You won't have answers because you are blinded by your own opinions...

And slimming cinic fad has just arrived past 1994-95 after VLCC & beauty contests, whereas love for fairness has long history... So don't mix up two... And both issues extend to both men & women, but you talk as if men are free from depressions due to his height, weight, colour etc...

Stop talking touchy-feely stuff and pay attention to facts now...

Slimming centres mostly work on un-natural ways of fat burning like electric shocks (mild), massage or medicines (at times works), Crash diet (or similar unbalanced diets) and a few exersizes (to be maintained later)... Although I won't go into details but understand this that if you are loosing more than 1 kg of fat more than a week then it is just not natural... One of major side effects is immediate weight gain... But how many women know this...??? None, and they ought to be taken for a ride...

I'm happy that beauty parlours & slimming centres are there giving empowerment to women to be independent... So let these thousands of women earn their wages... But your eyes are closed to welfare of such women... Yes fairness is mirage but don't you see how many people are employed in production, marketing, sales, supply chain, general stores, modeling, testing etc... Old national surveys says only 5% but world report says 15% of indian population is middle class (Now don't start with me on classification of middle class)... Can you tell me how many slimming centers/ Beauty parlours are financially accessible to 60% of poor women...???

I did my MBA from one of top 3 B-schools in India, and every management graduate female of my class went to beauty parlour after every month... They feel great after getting fairness, massage services offered by beauty parlours... We guys feel good admiring such freshness... And ladies at beauty parlours are happy to earn their wages, to take back home...

Yes fairness is mirage but lady you are also cog in wheel to give customer what he or she desires... But here you are giving depressing statements about how foolish customers are... Every girl is not as lucky as you or Megha for having access to internet, a personal computer, digicams, expensive dinners... Let these girls earn their livelihood... Atleast show your respect to such girls who are making their own choices for life and don't complex their lives with your idealogical anti-fairness bullshit...



@ Maleficent

Thank you for atleast elaborating points, which is a courtesy of debating... And allow me to show you my manners as per your act...

I delibrately lost my manners when I was called "Fucking Ugly" as I believe in responding in same tone... I reserve my manners for people like you... Tolerance for stupidity is not my virtue...

Yes I made mistakes & I'll keep making them in future. Usually english mistakes I make, is due to edits I carry out later after writing rough draft... That 'Antagonizing' mistake was a result from fast typing of keyboard (yet it is mistake)... At that particular point Grammer I think is perfectly sarcastic and indirect... (Hint: you missed my many other mistakes :D)... You may like to look at your punctuation skills (which, ',' that)... oh and also you may like to look at usage of english words like 'only', connectors (especially in last 2 para's of yours)...

You haven't read BBC article from where I picked up that quote, or you'll not raise this issue... Prof. explained why fairness is given such importance in India... I guess you need to link BBC article and understand comment...

Racism stands for prejudice based on race (distinctly identifiable group)... Megha specifically wrote about fair-skin racism... But if fair-skin preference is considered discrimination as serious as religious racism then I consider behavior prefering intelligence over other human traits as racism...

That is why my point was that both are not racism, personal choices are not racism... May be you haven't thought about it but Literary circles, Scholar groups often indulge in such intellect racism... If you still are in dark then you may like to ponder over european history and formation of poetic circles... Atleast fair-skin racism hasn't been that widespread... (Read Us vs Them orientation)...

Let me ask you how nazi scientists proved that Aryans were superior...??? (hint: way of thinking, more intelligent than Jews)

To which race I belong you asked...??? I belong to nowhere, for my existence is limited by only 50 more years... You'll see me in some other race by the end of 50 years... may be rich, may be poor, fair, dark, african, hispanic, male, female, hindu, muslim, neo-nazis, feminist, anti-feminist blah blah blah...


P.S. Stop stooping down to levels of fault finding in grammer and spelling if you have nothing better to do... Such fault-finding is an easy task but objective critiquing is a very tough job... One can find even bigger holes in your mental models on which your life is based upon... But let me not break childlike faith of innocent soul of yours (courtesy spiritofcosmos.blogspot.com)...



@ Other Bloggers

You may consider to stop harping "GK is opinionated, GK is stupid"...

If you disagree with me then please do Yourself, Megha and Myself a favour by elaborating why you disagree, where you disagree & what you disagree about...

Kaushik Gopalan said...

gk,

Can you please specify the sexist generalizations/ male bashing in the post, just so that everybody is on the same page?

gk said...

Part 1a
"When an Indian woman looks for one or two likable qualities in a future mate she is labeled difficult and unreasonable." (woman is always innocent)

Part 1b
"But a man can have no personality, no hair and have bad teeth, and still expect a woman who is ‘very fair," (fuck off you ugly man)

Part 2
"ranking system made by pubescent 14-15 year old boys is a little skeevy but it makes an interesting point as to how this fairness obsession transcends age barriers in India." (Fairness love in teenage 'guys', girls never do any ranking)

Part 3 & 4
"ideal Indian bride i.e. Fair, beautiful, cultured, educated and homely girl from a good (insert religion/caste/sub-caste here) family and so on." links with "to specify your skin tone for a matrimonial ad," and "oh-wail-no-one-will-marry-you-now. Please tell me if you have seen anyone calling themselves ‘dark’" (Girls has to mention skin colour, for guys)


Ranking in order of importance...
Rest you can ask Jim & others...

I felt repelled by cruel mockery of desires of unfortunate not-so-good looking men and women(part 1a, 1b), and subtly blame is thrown onto men for such mentality(part 2, 3, 4)...

Vijayeta said...

GK, Dude, I'm sorry, but unlike you, I have a life which doesnt allow me to carefully read and draft loooong replies for each and every word uttered here. And like Kaushik said, I cant see any sexist generalizations in Megha's post really! And i'm glad i'm not the only one.
My reply is only for your last two paragraphs. All i'll say to that is, I graduated from the best film school in Asia. I work in Bollywood and to assure you i'm not a misanthrope, I swear I go to an upmarket gym daily and salon twice every month. So trust me, I'm not robbing anyone from the beauty industry of their living. If anything, I propagate it as a part of my job. I have asked actresses and models to lose weight in an insanely short time, get expensive skin treatments and massages, told actors to lose weight too, or work out more, or get expensive funky haircuts and face treatments etc.
You see, we are the people who commodify actors and actresses. We are VERY shallow! VERY! And to commodify anyone, you have to rely intensely on the beauty industry. We know that till the time an actress is reed thin, she will not be able to carry off all those expensive designer clothes perfectly. Then how will the aspirational value come for the masses? How will all those innocent men and women in our small towns spend all their hard earned money going to parlours and gyms trying to look like Hrithink Roshan and Aishwarya Rai? How will they spend major money aspiring to buy those luxury label shades, jeans, bags, shirts, cars, bikes, shampoos etc. You have no idea how much business we help generate for the beauty industry. All those film star posters you see in those small parlors, warm the cockles of my heart! When tonnes of college going girls refuse to eat in order to look like Malaika Arora, I feel immense satisfaction of a job well done. And it works,and women look awesome and men like you in one of top 3 B-schools can "admire their freshness".
I'm sure you'd approve!

Atleast show your respect to such girls who are making their own choices for life and don't complex their lives with your idealogical anti-fairness bullshit...
Like i said, I do show my respect to these women. My semi-personal trainer is a very smart young woman who i cant live without, and I tell her so everyday. As is the girl who does my facials and pedicures at the salon. Apart from a big tip, I tell her too how she's so important to me. And believe me, they REALLY are!
My feelings and intentions for the people in the beauty industry are very noble, pure and respectful.(God, we'd all be so bloody fugly and flabby without them! What a scary thought!)
And fairness is not a mirage. Remember Jean Kerr's famous quote:
Of course beauty is skin deep. What more do you want? An adorable pancreas?

Ketaki said...

Conversation between my aunt and me, at 21.
(i had graduated and wasnt in the sun any longer)

"oh now that college is over, you're looking better, you've put on some weight & lost some tan. good. but konjam colour varanam"

i'm sorry auntie this is as good as it gets

i sooooooo know wat u mean, ive got the 'ur so dark' deal right thru school and college... but i feel more for women who stop themselves from sports and anything that involves sun jus so their complexion doesnt get ruined.
thats jus saaaad!

ps. i actually knw the guy who was the model in the fair and handsome ad!lol... some ppl wud do anythin for money.. i mean he went out in public and declared that he has a problem with being dark right? but thats his complexion for the rest of his life. so lame.

gk said...

@ Vijayeta

Thanks for a thought over reply... Let me not hide me contempt for your subtle sarcastic words... I'll be crystal clear for you...

Everyone has life and everyone has priorities which only they have to manage. We in top 3 b-schools manage as you say 'men like me' have common pattern of not sleeping through 100 hours at a stretch and our work is tedious statistics not mumbo jumbo hand swaying acting... Let me loose my manners and tell you on face that I'm capable enough to be sincere on very few things I touch rather than rushing through whole day...

And I don't think you understand even a single word I said... You talk of buying designer labels, bags, jeans, cars... and you talk of semi-personal trainers, small parlours... I talk of livelihood and you are concerned about your gut...??? Disgusting... Somewhere a job loss will mean education of a child is stopped and what all you could think was designer labels...

Oh dear you talk of expensive actors... You are from bollywood so you'll know what I'll talk about... Do you remember Vimi from old hindi movie 'Hamraaz' (Actor: Rajkumar)...??? Even you may not know how she died... On her last days an inspector of area used to give her Rs. 500 per month for survival just because he couldn't see a human in such condition... She died with many horrendous diseases in her slum... How I know this...??? Unfortunately I have access to insights of owners of model launching/training/acting school...???

And pathetically you have mixed up bollywood page 3 lustre with a beautiful feeling of a common girl whose simple thought is 'Today I look good'... And there is no correlation between fanatism of a few foolish rampant college students with self-esteem issue of a common girl...

You do not even care enough to understand that your beauty products, shirts, bikes include raw paper, galvanizing machine, plastic, moulding machines, drivers for transport, trucks, truck production, steel, cotton, tailors, cutters, fabricators, rubber industry and so many industries are working behind them, so many families, so many men, women, and children...

Not only you have undermined intelligence of common women of india that they can choose what is better, you have also disrespected their belief that they need not look like Malliaka Arora... Lady you haven't even touched lower middle class...

5 indians die every minute from hunger (courtesy www.bhookh.com)
35% of indians earn less than Rs. 50 per day, i.e. 350 million people (World Development Index report)
You talk of college girls... how many are they... But do you know only 45% of indian women are literate (World bank), whom you never may have seen... Even maids of metros are now literate

I talk of purchasing power parity... Do you know in Bhopal most expensive cinema ticket in early 2003 was Rs. 50 and least was Rs. 7 for same hall... In Daryaganj, Delhi Rs. 2 to 10 is what is charged from poor people for one show which is their purchasing power parity... I haven't even started on towns untouched by cement roads where they worry for survival not fair skin...

Don't sway my harsh opinions by talking of middle class portrayed by outlook india or HT...

I'm sorry if I'm harsh... I urge you to have look at small flash link below then talk to me about vanities of middle class people...

http://www.ekincaglar.com/coin/flash.html

P.S. My humble request will be that you visit www.bhookh.com and please click to donate a cup of staple to someone who deserves it... Many big companies have sponsered this food program...

Vijayeta said...

Sigh! How slow are you, GK?You just reiterated my point.

(Somewhere a job loss will mean education of a child is stopped...)

Bollywood propagates the beauty industry. Which in turn means jobs and livelihood Because of people like me, they wont lose their job.

You do not even care enough to understand that your beauty products, shirts, bikes include raw paper, galvanizing machine, plastic, moulding machines, drivers for transport, trucks, truck production, steel, cotton, tailors, cutters, fabricators, rubber industry and so many industries are working behind them, so many families, so many men, women, and children...

Take a deep breath. And let me tell you yet again, I UNDERSTAND and I CARE. I undertsand ALL that goes into making those products and brands. And since they are in such great demand, the work force involved WILL retain their jobs. And hence, be able to send their children to school, get better medical facilities etc.

You have mixed up bollywood page 3 lustre with a beautiful feeling of a common girl whose simple thought is 'Today I look good'... And there is no correlation between fanatism of a few foolish rampant college students with self-esteem issue of a common girl... Not only you have undermined intelligence of common women of india that they can choose what is better, you have also disrespected their belief that they need not look like Malliaka Arora...

GK, the common women of India do not need YOU to speak up for them and talk about their complexes. What do you know about what goes into that simple feeling of, "I'm looking good today!" What do you know of growing up amongst prejudices as a young girl in India? Like Megha, and me, and the other women who agree with her, you have to GO THROUGH it to know what its like. Being a woman and to know how she feels and how she manages to look good etc are not things that you can understand/grasp second hand or even through close proximity to women or through osmosis or whatever it is that has you all up in arms about the rights of women and how we feel. Social class notwithstanding! You cant know about women till you're one yourself. Like I'm really trying to figure why you are the way you are. But i accept my limitations and give up!

Do you know in Bhopal most expensive cinema ticket in early 2003 was Rs. 50 and least was Rs. 7 for same hall... In Daryaganj, Delhi Rs. 2 to 10 is what is charged from poor people for one show which is their purchasing power parity...

You know what? I know that. And that is why Bollywood is what it is today. The world's largest film industry. Because no matter what, people need to be entertained. Don't they? A means to escape away from their worries about their daily lives. Its up to them how they choose to spend their Rs. 2 or Rs. 10! If they want to watch a film, it will be made available to them at a cost they CHOOSE to afford.

As for every tragic story of old actresses, there's another Rags-To-Riches one like Amitabh Bachchan and Shah Rukh Khan. And yes, nowadays people in Bollywood also have access to financial advisors from the top 3 B-Schools IN THE WORLD to help them plan their future better.
So that story won't repeat itself again. I assure you. Yet again!

Are you happy now?
:)

maleficent said...

GK...

No not really. Antagonising my faith that women have brains is, by any stretch of the imagination, grammatically correct.

You haven't read BBC article from where I picked up that quote, or you'll not raise this issue... Prof. explained why fairness is given such importance in India... I guess you need to link BBC article and understand comment...

No I haven’t. So why don’t you tell us instead using the theory as a bogeyman. Tell us! Out with the brilliant theory. You have read it. You are enlightened. What did Prof Shalini Bharat say, whose gender you thoughtfully put in parentheses.

As an aside why did you identify the gender of the mother from Botswana in parentheses. But I am sure you will whip out your Wren & Martin and tell me the answer.

And you went to a top business school? Right!!!! Of course you did! ;)

All you seem to do is propound half baked ideas and frenzied name dropping of BBC and poor Prof. Shalini Bharat.You shouldn’t take her name in vain, no?

And what is this bit about intellect racism? European history and poetic circles? What exactly was that schlock? I studied literature. So, BOO!

To which race I belong you asked...??? I belong to nowhere, for my existence is limited by only 50 more years... You'll see me in some other race by the end of 50 years... may be rich, may be poor, fair, dark, african, hispanic, male, female, hindu, muslim, neo-nazis, feminist, anti-feminist blah blah blah...

Crap! That doesn’t mean anything. What are you on? Probably ODing on aastha channel.

In the Talmud there’s a saying. One fool can throw a pond in the stone which ten wise men can’t retrieve. I know that and yet I indulge GK? Imagine.

P.S:( let me stoop really low again and take cheap potshots at you)As for providing me with a reading list why don’t I begin yours with Elementary English for Beginners ;)

gk said...

@ Vijeyeta

Now how can I be rude when you are so decent... But tell me do mothers have to be children (male or female) to understand their kids...??? Do you have to be a male to understand your father...??? May be you have a kid then I'd ask 'Is gender important to really understand human nature"...??? Because by your logic may be a sister will never understand a brother, and lover's understanding will become universal joke...

Are you sure that common women of India doesn't need me and my male fraternity to speak for them because we are not women...??? Because then by your logic females never understood pains of being a male. So I'll say males suffer more than female but what you know, because you are not a male...??? Be not too hasty to give up faith...

As I said before, I still believe that your access is only to women who are smart, young, literate but not women about whom I talked about for whom spending Rs. 2 is luxury... Internet penetration rate is only 25 million out of 1024 million and even then you talk on behalf of millions of other women on basis of only being a women...??? Tell me how can you understand plight of women if you are not in same state like her...??? You have food, you have PC, clothes, job, friends so tell me how you understand millions of other women who are interested in only in survival for next day...??? Sorry, I'm still not apathetic enough to not to help a worthy cause irrespective of gender...

You nod your head 'yes, they are important' then you talked of college kids...??? Seriously, you talked of entertainment, when I was talking of livelihood...??? No, I don't agree with your statement that you understand... You may acknowledge their presence but I certainly doubt your understanding for them...

Rags for riches doesn't need welfare service... There'll be same tragic stories in new form because there is a world beyond us where you and I'll never be able to make a difference... Don't promise so eagerly over fate over which none has control...

And from your comments I guess you didn't see the flash link I gave you in last comment or you wouldn't have given me example of entertainment in Rs. 2... You should have seen that video...

You asked if I'm happy... Tell me first did you donated a cup of food at bhookh.com...??? If you did, then I'm happy and whatever you say I agree... (I doubt if you even considered visiting this site)



@ Maleficent

Remember what Megha said "quit personal attacks on blogger"...

You know talmud quote but still you are indulging...??? naughty girl...!!! May be you are fool or may be I'm not a fool...

So when you'll grow up a bit more then may be you'll start understanding motives & wisdom behind religion and distortions as well as soundness of religious activity...

May be now your temper is too high to think anything straight other than feelings of smashing my face into brickwall or turn me into a punching bag...

Here is your link...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4396122.stm
Read it now...
So...??? A lot many assumptions of yours again fall flat on face... You may again like to find spelling mistakes...

That particular word Female was written besides mother to specifically tell followers of 'Andrea Dworkin' that a female not a male is at work... But let me predict an answer from feminists "It was all because of males that poor mothers never had choice... These dirty males have committed a 'crime' of hurting my feelings... boo hoo...!!!"

I seriously laughed at your BOO..!!! Thanks for small token... By the way I asked you to read history, not literature... Not even historical origins of literature but pure histry, events...

Let me ask you again did you check Nazi propaganda, and did you read about french poet circles, portugal courts and british sense of pride... (hint: Gustave flaubert, Dumas, Ninon, Evremond... Read history of their time and cult-behavior prevalent)

Actually sometimes I feel by the way of preferences that Nazi, Socialists, Democrats etc. are also racists...
Idea Racism, you'll agree... Racism also have another symptom that is scorn for people not having particular favorable trait... For example Nazi said Jews are wrong, similarly socialists believe in superiority of their virtues... Now if fair skin preference is racism then people tolerate dark skin to much greater extents, which I believe is still milder than people's inability to tolerate stupidity... So you'll agree intellect racism is deeper than fairskin racism...

So my next question based on Astha channel will be that we let animals live in peace and love so doesn't stupid people have similar right to live equally and with our love...??? Yes we are racists...

And you can also take cheap pot-shots at me, I don't mind that... But then you'll have to give me freedom to take cheap pot-shots at you... Atleast give me some better book than elementary english afterall I cracked CAT...

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ jim: um taking incidents from my life and what I see around me, is a 'sexist thing'? Pray tell me how? And I started this post with a conversation with my Aunt(the last time I checked, she was a woman)..:-)
While I appreciate an opposing POV, please dont tell me how to write my post.
No hard feelings. :)
Thanks.

@ nahuatl: LOL, time to change then ;)

@ jammu: ha ha ha, whatever you do, please do go down the 'fake tan' road, they look ghastly! :D

@ guru: I didnt disappoint, the fair and lovely ad is at the bottom see? :)

@ suryakannan: hello! And yes I feel your pain. because I went through something very similar only because I was into sports. argh.

@ ketaki: *hug* I know what you mean, :S

@ grafx: LOL!!!!!

@wishful: no sorry needed da! AHAHAHAHAA! *dies laughing*

@ yogi: thankoo!

@ vij and maleficent: I bow to your greatness O' patient souls. No seriously..*bows*
:D

@ indianpeppone: I would appreciate it very much if you desist from telling me(or other bloggers) what is necessary and what is not necessary in my post. Thanks.

@ gk: dont hold on to that "megha said no personal attacks" statement, and twist it to your own use. You instigated the whole thing and when someone counter argues with you then you bring out the "megha said no personal attacks" statement, as if it validates your arguments.

Drops Of Jupiter said...

Reason number #456 why I am ashamed of being Indian.

Nuff said.

Rohini said...

Don't get me wrong. I am not condoning the fairness bias nor am I saying it's okay because Americans are worse off.

I just feel that when you classify it as racism in India, a larger point gets missed. And that point is about how unrealistic and unfair beauty ideals are detrimental to women and women's rights all over the world.

Vijayeta said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Vijayeta said...

GK, quick reply:

1. Yes I visited that site (though I do have my doubts about sites which promise 1 CUP of food to a hungry soul by just clicking the mouse!)

2. Be not too hasty to give up faith...

I've not given up faith and neither should you.

Krrish will save us Indians from all our woes.

:D

indianpeppone said...

Oops...sorry to have a contrary opinion... will try to desist having the same in the future..

B o o said...

Wait till you have a baby. OMG! Really. This "karuppu-seppu" thing does nt stop with you. How can one comment on a new born babys "kalar" beats me. That too people have the gall to ask you over the phone "kuzhandhai seppaa irukaa?" Oh wait a minute! Lemme go get a red marker!!
ps. No girl-boy discrimination when it comes to babies though! All people want is nalla color!

Kaushik Gopalan said...

Megha,

There's one thing that bothers me about your post.

The message that I get from it is "Dark women are just as beautiful as fair women".

Aren't we missing the more important point?

I think we should be telling people:

"What you look like is a very small part of who you are. Don't let it dictate more important parts of your life"

I think that would be a more appropriate message to send out.

Perspective Inc. said...

Your post made for an interesting/fun read.
I just think its high time people got over their warped beauty ideals where fairness equals prettiness and nothing else is taken into consideration! Aaaargh!

gk said...

@ Megha

"dont hold on to that "megha said no personal attacks" statement, and twist it to your own use. You instigated the whole thing and when someone counter argues with you then you bring out the "megha said no personal attacks" statement, as if it validates your arguments."


With examples I showed you earlier that it is people who pick me first... When your friends get stamped and plundered by me then you are bothered, so worried about terms of debating... Yet when your friend instigate the attack you think it is counter-argument...

Keep your hypocritical standards limited to people who cannot see them... I don't need validations from your words to say something... If you don't have an open-mind then atleast stop bothering people who can think otherwise (and don't start with me with a view of modernity equivalent to open mind debate)

maleficent said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
maleficent said...

Idiocy is the most formidable weapon in the world.You have clobbered me to death. More power to you GK:)


My last words before I die. Read them carefully GK because I used to be quite tenacious and patient ;)I am obviously not the woman I thought I was.

I seriously laughed at your BOO..!!! Thanks for small token... By the way I asked you to read history, not literature... Not even historical origins of literature but pure history, events...

Does your basic education NEED to happen in the comments section? Don't you know one does study History, Sociology,Economics and Philosophy of the period to understand the text better while studying literature.So i did study what you call "pure history";)BOO again!

And what is "historical origins of literature"? I am laughing over that one:-/

Dude! ofcourse you didn't go to a business school.Probably you didn't go to a school either.

Ok I am dead. Promise not to clobber me with more stupid stuff.

Nath said...

Racism? What does race have to do with it? I'm pretty sure dark-skinned people in India aren't discriminated against because of their race.

Pre-flamewar-gk had a point: every culture has their own arbitrary sense of aesthetics. This obsession with skin colour is silly, yes, but show me a definition of beauty that isn't.

Unrelated question: has the blog's RSS feed been disabled? The last post or two didn't show up.

cram said...

Hi Megha

Perhaps you should try thangabhasmam twice a day. It kept my thalaivar MGR in power for 10 uninterrupted years.

Vasu the terrible said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Vasu the terrible said...

1) All my Exs had been dark.
2) Fairness or lack of it, has no impact as far as sexual desire and appetite is concerned.
3) Fair and lovely product conceptualist had a fall when he/she was young. He/She went loony.
4) Fair and lovely ad conceptualist also had a fall when he/she was young. He/She went loony too.
5) I consider fair and lovely utterly offensive. Fair and handsome utterly pukish. Its like watching a sanitary napkin ad, in front of parents. You wouldnt want to be caught noting what happens on t.v.
6) But the ultimate pukish ad award goes to hyundai accent. Father looks out of house. He sees his daughter hesitently calling out to him. As he walks out, he sees a dorky man standing next to her. A hyundai car is in the background. Father looks at his daughter, her boyfriend and the car and is elated. Just as he goes near to hug the damaat, another dude comes, gets into the car and drives away. Father gets angry and chases away the boyfriend, because he doesnet have a car.
7) Dumbest ad in town - Tata indica... The four beauties who want someone to help them rub sun tan. If declining such an invitation was dumb by logical induction, accepting such an invitation would be the right thing. And what does it all have to do with four bikini clad, oestrogen crazed women ?? Another case of adman having fallen of his chair.

Vijayeta, GK, Megha and all others. I am slightly confused what stand each one is arguing about.

So I divised an experiment.

AFFLUENT, Hindu Punjabi parents seek tall, v.good-looking, (Photo must). US raised, highly educated professionals/ businessmen match; for v.beautiful, slim, v.fair, 30yrs/5’8”, Dentist daughter. asks30@yahoo.com

ALLIANCE invited for handsome, well-established South Indian MD specialist, 38/5’9”. Residing in Southeast. Innocently divorced, issueless. Invite correspondence from attractive, slim, educated girl who is articulate and family oriented. Please email bio-data and send recent photo to:
kumar06proposals@yahoo.com
or
(386) 316-0850.*

Now... these are two ads requiring specific attributes like slim, attractive, v.fair, beautiful etc. etc.

The possible stances.

1) Its totally wrong to peddle around people based on beauty characteristics like fair, v.fair, six figures. whatever.

2) Its ok to say your professional position, status like six figure salary etc. but absolutely not ok to say slim, fair or beautiful.

3) Its ok for the groom to ask for what he wants (slim, fair, beautiful) but not ok for the bride to place demands like US settled, six figures, green card etc.

4) Its ok for the bride to ask for attributes like "handsome, tall, well placed (wink wink), six figure salaried, Software industry, doctor, etc. etc. While it is not ok for groom to ask for attributes such as fair, homely, well placed etc. etc.

5) Its not ok for groom to ask and its not ok for bride to ask. If you want to know, meet each other and exchange information. If you find it acceptible then, you can go ahead and finalise the alliance. Atleast you will give a fair chance to the dark, short, bald, (bride/groom), a chance to interract and figure out each other one on one.

6) All matrimonial ads are sick and arranged marriages should be disallowed, because most of the requirements are racist in nature and are propogated by male parents of the bride and groom. If you cant find someone on your own, then you deserve to live a companionship less life.

7) Matrimonial ads are ok, but dont try to reach the standards posted on the matrimonial ads by trying slimming clinics, fairness creams etc. etc.

8) Its racist to propogate any standard of beauty be it fair, beautful, slim, phoren settled, rich etc. while you are getting married, but its ok to do all this while trying to make a movie or becoming a model. Afterall we need to entertain everyone and no one would like to see a fat, bald, dude dancing to "Dil na dhiya, dil na dhiya... tho kya kiya" in Krish. He doesent even deserve to be that ugly sidekick.

9) Let everyone be given the freedom to do what they want. Let those who oppose these beautification techniques have the freedom to do that. Let also the Vandana luthras, the fair and lovely waalas be given the freedom to peddle their creams and ads as long as they conform to drug control authority. Whats wrong in asking for fair and beautiful things for a lifetime of being togather ? Afterall if its a lifetime decision (like it is assumed almost always when two people get married), they should have the freedom to chose and say whatever attributes they look for in others. If you are short, dark, ugly and possibly bald (like me) then you better learn to take rejection and move on. Instead, you can work out, lose some pounds and use "fair and handsome" and see how the world changes its reaction to it.

Ok... these are some of the stances, I came up with. I dont know who stands for what. After so many posts, it all has become a gk centric affair. No I am not jeleous. All power to GK.. but I thought let me get back some perspective and play the role of that wise man. Did I say I am greying near my temples... ha.. but I am told not to worry. There is this good old "godrej hair dye"... I cant forget that ad neighbourhood teen girl reacting to a couple coming out of their home "Hi bhiya and hello auntyji" or "hi didi and hello uncle ji"..

You know how it is when you are dark, short, ugly, balding, greying etc.. These ads form the only anchor of hope for an otherwise worthless existence.

Baaaaaawwwww :((..

neway since I have cried it all out, let me know what is your stance.

vasu (checking himself out in the mirror just in case something changed in the last 5 minutes).

my life.... said...

its so sad that such ideology still exist in Indian society...why can t they appreciate god's gift...?

Grafxgurl said...

@ GK .. hehehe...youre having a good time arent you... :D

Grafxgurl said...

MEGHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! NEW POST girl!!! this autistic spaz of a GK will NOT shut up !

gk said...

@ Vijayeta

I agree... :)



@ Maleficent

I wrote earlier keeping in mind modern definition of Literature which seperates history, philosophy and other writings as different academic disciplines... But my mistake that I asked you to read history... History itself has so many components...

But that was then... Now I'm out of my tolerance level for your stupidity... Idiotic assumptions & silly accusations is only what you have done till now... You quoted but you didn't even know nazi agendas... You made foolish remarks earlier too and I gave you particular BCC link... You asked me for particular names and I gave you particular names... again and again you challenged my reasoning & sources... and again here you are showing your unintelligent face, again with ridiculous accusations...

Not even a single time you gave me any deductive or inductive logic, not even a single time you could actually discuss anything with reason or historical evidence... I would have ignored if someone else would have said 'Philosophy of a period' but you are a literature student and you ought to know there is nothing called as philosophy of period... Yes I understand you meant ideas, you meant prevalent concepts but what you said is not word of a literature student which shows how much you actually read really in your so called literature course...

Seriously I doubt your mental capability when you think reading of history during literature is pure history... Historical origins of literature meant understanding waves of origin behind stream of consciousness, roots of philosophical ideas, acceptance of ways of writing, promotions of prose in society etc... Stop showing your teeth at your petty knowledge...

If I'm so stupid/idiot then why you again and again write yourself...??? You give me idioms and again you indulge without sense... Other than repeating 'power to you GK', 'clobbering to death', typing philosophical idioms you have done nothing which could give a glimpse that you possess an organ between your ears...



@ Vasu

Hey man! Thanks for giving hope to my faith that all sound levels here are not irrational noises...

I think we are taking all these stances from people who have nothing to do with marriage ads...
If I consider motives of parents, girl, guy who are searching or giving ads it can be summed up as "Let me get the best"... A single question will be if you are fair, or slim or beautiful or if you earn tons of cash, or if you have house won't you use it to your advantage...??? I just see it as a form of marketing...

So a girl advertisement will actually have everything that could possibly attact a good husband considering (attributes based on beauty, education)
A guy's advertisement will have everything to interest not only girl but also her parents (Salary, education)

Everyone is getting equal opportunity and everyone have to have qualities set by other party... In India if we prefer caste or fair-skin then it is just personal choices and social way of living... If one person in a marriage desires her partner to be tall then let her have freedom to ask for it... If tall men are in supply she'll get, if not she may not get... But why there is no post on impressive-personalit-love racism in India or in world...???

I say let people do anything they want with their ads because it is their life... and we are just observants... We at times try to touch social disorder which in turn are bound to other pillars of stability... (for e.g. when US framed new rules of spousal property then community involvment decreased, cohabiliation increased, single mothers numbers increased, welfare share of each person decreased)


@ Grafxgurl

You made an assumption that I have good time with such comments...
You made another assumption that with a new post GK will stop...
You have an illusion that you are funny...


You want me to stop, and do you also believe in suppression of right of freedom of speech (something Megha just shouted in a sticky post)??? Don't push your impatience on others, if you are bored go somewhere else...

By the way when was last time you actually contributed anything to any discussion...???

Gosh! I love how people like you get together, sway heads in 'I agree, I agree', tell 'a dime a dozen' personal stories, then pump up your pigeon-chested egos satisfied that a great discussion just happened...

Reshma said...

gk, are you prathap?

gk said...

@ Reshma

Reshma, are you Prathap...???
Or may be GK & Reshma are same and now answers to his question only...
May be Reshma you are another known blogger here but hid your identity...

No, I'm not Pratap... Whether you think Prathap and I are same or different, you are right...
(Adapted from: "Whether you think you can, or you can't, you're right. - Henry Ford")

Sriram said...

Gaaah. I'm Jack's raging bile duct! Screw freedom of speech. There. I said it. Screw it. Every moron seems to use that particular phrase and I'm sick and tired of it.

Yo GK,
Baby boy? SUnny Boy? - ok Grampa. But where is the rabbit? and BTW, who goes to rabbits? Wait, you mean rabbit hole? i hope you did cuz if Nandita Das was a rabbit, I'd love to be one too. Besides, the way you comment, it looks like you've got nothing better to do than to scan comments that might be 1024 lines long and write a comment. you know what's worsE? you think you are a critic, which might explain why you look at each and every line written on a blog and comment on it. Here's a flash news : bloggers write their *opinions* and trying to critque opinions is plain dumb.

As for others,
I agree with the no personal attacks policy. I don't think GK attacked me personally, but rather, he was trying to patronize me. I sincerely think this is my grand-pa from a previous life who's trying to communicate with me. so, NO personal attacks, unless you've been attacked first.

Now, time for me to resume my life.

unforgiven said...

This could get fun.

@gk: I don't agree or disagree with what you have said and I think you have a perfect right to express whatever opinion you wish to. I just had, err, how should I put it, a few clarifications that I wanted to seek.

"A very valid point made. In India being fair gives you at times unfair advantages... It is same as getting tan (golden-skin fad) in west... Every region have their own preferences, like negros love big butts either male or female for which 'mothers'(females) in Botswana, south africa, and african countries make their children sleep in spoon shape... I don't even want to remember torturing little-feet preferences in China, big lips (earned by piercing hanging weights on lower lips), long neck fetish (through springs) on some other world islands...???"

Being in a top three IIM, which of course means you are a great philosophising mind and not just another average intelect who can slog his ass off, simply to get that humungous Rs 6 lakh a year job (oh wait, don't tell me, you gave the exam without studying didn't you! You smart kid, you..), I would have assumed that you knew the status of the word "negro" in today's world, right?

Along with that bro, could you kinda, sorta explain to me, why is it that since other people are fucked up, its okay for us to be fucked up also?

Hey, I am nowhere as brainy as you, which is why clarification would be great.



"Sorry to break news but you are also a racist, if you prefer intellect over beauty. You are also racist if you think of having male partner with hair, with great white teeth, and impressive personality... Why girls with pathetic personalities should have access to guys who are better...??? Your use of racism theory to target indian males is pathetic..."

Of course because actually judging someone on what they have "made" of their lives instead of what they were born with is such a horrible thing! Damn these women of today!

And it is all so true! Unless a guy has hair like a gorilla or teeth more 'great' than a giant bunny, women cannot get attracted to a guy. It makes them SO racist because that, err, yeah, that, wait, what was that race again has hair and great white teeth?


"I guess feminist view point of all-men-are-bastards is playing a role here too..."
All men are bastards. All women are also bitches. This is just mutual admiration.


"But it is very hard for me to resist temptation to atleast align those who pick me personally..."
Since of course, if someone picks you personally, it has to be because of your great big dick, not any dumbfuck comment you might have made. Dintcha know? IIM guys don't make stupid comments. Geez, these dumbfucks.


"Yes I'm tiresome... but why you find me tiresome...??? Think it on why 'you' find me tiresome... Do not ponder over why I'm tiresome..."
Wait, if you ARE tiresome, do they still need to ponder over why they find you tiresome?


"Comment wasn't even directed for you so stop meddling... Discuss the post, debate over comment or just shut-up if you can't understand anything..."
Because in a blog, people can only comment on comments directed at them. What if the comment was directed at someone who commented on a comment that was directed at someone who had posted a comment which was directed on a comment directed at me?

Hint: Don't pull out your paper and pencil and do the logic analysis thing. It works in the CAT. In real life, you kinda need to just move back a step or two and think. Just a suggestion from a dumb guy. Your mileage may vary.


"You failed to see sexiest generalizations in her post... You failed to see that even men can have as innocent dreams as women about marriage... You also failed to see that when fairness is considered desirable in indian society, then why common men shouldn't desire it... And you also failed to see how blog-author's aunt, her mother told her about fairness but how blame finally bestowed upon men for his desires..."
Men have as innocent dreams as women about marriage? Wait, women have "innocent" dreams about marriage?
..and I fail to see when is it exactly that either men or women have "innocent" dreams about marriage.


"When an Indian woman looks for one or two likable qualities in a future mate she is labeled difficult and unreasonable." (woman is always innocent)

This is totally stupid. Women are not labeled that way in the majority of civilized India. Since someone made that claim, of course as a solution we should react by stating that its OKAY to desire a woman based on the looks she was born with and not who she IS!

Yes, we should, we should.


"But a man can have no personality, no hair and have bad teeth, and still expect a woman who is ‘very fair," (fuck off you ugly man)
That is SO stupid! If a man does not brush, has the personality of an coke overdosed street rat, he DESERVES hot women! Of course, now if he has no hair, hmm, that we need to think about.


"Everyone has life and everyone has priorities which only they have to manage. We in top 3 b-schools manage as you say 'men like me' have common pattern of not sleeping through 100 hours at a stretch and our work is tedious statistics not mumbo jumbo hand swaying acting... Let me loose my manners and tell you on face that I'm capable enough to be sincere on very few things I touch rather than rushing through whole day..."

Dude, say what you mean na. Everyone has a life. Mine is just better than anyone else's. It's okay, I think its clear enough what you mean by that para that you might as well state it in plain words.

*kneels down and kisses ground*


"And I don't think you understand even a single word I said... You talk of buying designer labels, bags, jeans, cars... and you talk of semi-personal trainers, small parlours... I talk of livelihood and you are concerned about your gut...??? Disgusting... Somewhere a job loss will mean education of a child is stopped and what all you could think was designer labels..."

This shows SUCH clarity on humanity dude. If a kid is starving in somalia, it gives me NO right whatsoever to get upset about the fact that the girl I loved dumped me for another guy with a bigger car. I mean, come on! So what my life seems meaningless and the woman I had thought would be my partner for life just betrayed me in one of the worst way's possible! There's that starving kid in Somalia! How could I not think about him instead! Shame on me.


@Kaushik Gopalan:

""Azhagaa irukka... nalla color"

Why is this so offensive? I think everybody has a right to define beauty their own way, however one dimensional or shallow we might think it is."

I know! Opinions are like assholes remember? Everyone has one. However one dimensional or shallow we may think it is!


@Vasu the terrible: Thanks dude. I needed that. After such meaningful discussion, I *really* needed a comment which I could read and make neither head or tail out of. Gave me a sense of clarity. Really. How could someone be upset about what their aunt said about their appearence when there are people loose on the internet who would face competition with a mentally retarded orangutan!




Man, I could go on and on and on but unfortunately, some of us actually have to go to work tomorrow, not just stay up for 100 hours straight just to be able to boast about our great strength that allowed us to survive an IIM!

Darn, life is unfair!

shark said...

Why do people have to fight for anything and everything!
I didn't see any sexist/feministic (I am not sure that's the right word.. but anyway I guess you will understand what I am trying to say) in this post at all...

Just our conceptions that fair is beautiful! I mean fair can "also" be beautiful... It irritates me when people base the beauty on the color. That's what is wrong. Definitely wrong.

gk said...

@ Sriram

Cutting out your useless rant... I placed a bet... Where are 3-4 places you said I contradict myself...???

Once again Sunny...! Freedom of speech you speak of is just sentence in constitutions (made by man) followed by a lot of countries... Have you ever seen a message of terrorist, video of Al-qaida ideology on so-called-free media of today...??? Harping ideologies like freedom of speech was always an easy job... Now you'll also pull out your remaining hair to realize that there is nothing called as Complete Democracy in this world (Remember Blog ban)...

Side Note: So what is this feature 'comment' stands for...??? Anonymous, other identities...??? Do you mean on blog opinions, we just come by invitation to share personal stories, or fill up 'yes ma'm, I agree' vote... I critique not opinions but reasoning behind such opinions...

But telling other commentor that 'why you say something, which I don't want to listen' is not only indicator of lack of patience but also portrays lack of understanding of evolution of public cyberspace, something we are so overjoyed about... May be you'll like to go through "The Argumentative Indian by Amartya Sen" before you jump on me again for expressing my views (please don't start debating on 'argumentative' word without going through the book)


@ Megha

Like last times I have completed my quota so I'll not comment after this and for next few posts...

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ grafx: of course you can 'push your impatience'(quoting from gk) on me girl, but you already knew that :D..*hug*

@ reshma: good question! It passed through my mind fleetingly too :)

@ gk :right, and this is your blog,isnt it? Not mine.
I second vij, only krrish can save me now! :D

gk said...

@ unforgiven

I just realized that you posted a comment requesting my opinion...
I'll not comment here, so may be you'll like to relax your comment moderation for letting anonymous comment on your blog...

Sriram said...

@ Unforgiven,
Dude!!! you made my day!

@ gk,
"But telling other commentor that 'why you say something, which I don't want to listen' is not only indicator of lack of patience but also portrays lack of understanding of evolution of public cyberspace, something we are so overjoyed about..." - so *that* is my problem. Actually, i think I don't understand evolution in the first place. Monkeys turn to apes turn to some missing link turns to human beings? Is that how it goes? Cuz bro, THAT is evolution. What we have on cyberspace is more an explosion or mutation rather than evolution. (go look it up on some library shelf and i'm sure you'll figure it out, eventually!)

"Side Note: So what is this feature 'comment' stands for...??? Anonymous, other identities...??? Do you mean on blog opinions, we just come by invitation to share personal stories, or fill up 'yes ma'm, I agree' vote... I critique not opinions but reasoning behind such opinions..." -- And you know what else? Opinions need not have any reasons behind them. That's why they are called *opinions*. So, let's review : Someone has an opinion without a reason. Then you, an esteemed "three top b-schools, IIM included" scholar, come along and search everywhere and find a reason and critique it too. All this when there isn't a reason behind an opinion. So, what does that make you?

Ok... *deep breath*. Did you read that comment? Did it make sense? If you say yes, I'll be damned! Cuz I wrote it NOT to make sense. Critique that!

As mah brotha Unforgiven said, opinions are like assholes. everyone has it and no one needs someone else to explore it. Got it?

And now, since you is top three business school including IIM, why you is not trying to optimize something or manage something and instead wasting time commenting on blogs? Isn't that counter-productive and isn't the goal of management to reduce counter-productivity? Ponder that and lemme know.

FJ said...

Good one, Megha.
I have to accept that even I fall for **fairer** girls unconsciously. But I am happy my last 2 crushes are dark skinned. So I think I am coming out of it.

But why is this so? You have not gone much deeper into the reasons I think.

For a moment I think it is deeply ingrained into the caste system of India. I read somewhere a theory that when the fairer Aryans came to India, their offsprings with the local population formed higher strata of the society while the pure bred offsprings were of lower strata. This continued with the famous 4 varnas theory. Incidentally, varna means colour and so I think the basis for caste system is colour. Somewhere it entered our genes.

Even now I just look on surprised when Indians make fun of somebody based on skin colour.

And you are right..fairer girls in India always occupy the top spots in the local listings.

Grafxgurl said...

GK... i guess youve done a fair bit of assumption yourself havent you...

i m not bored.... and i dont have to go anywhere else...lol.

if you scroll up.. you'll see i "HAVECONTRIBUTED TO THIS DISCUSSION"...its obvious you dont read.youre like this mad inmate who's run away from his asylum.. standing in the middle of the road.. flailing his arms and screaming all kinds of things while cars honk at you to get out of the way...

:D

R.E.B.E.L said...

Well, I have a doubt.. Why do men want a woman with a fair complexion when they spend all their time looking close to 8 inches below the face!

Why Am I said...

i so totally identify with wat u said!..apart from the "konjam colour varanum" and try this and that for becoming fairer there is also this yhing of "nee iyera? arent they supposed to be fair?",,,watta whole lotta crap

seriously_frivolous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
seriously_frivolous said...

The fetish for the fair skin...is that an acquired trait or is it in-born. What I mean and would also like to know is...if there is this kid kept aloof from the world for years and suddenly introduced to "people" would he/she still find fair skin more attractive? What is it in us that craves for the lighter skin.

Yogi said...

@unforgiven
you rock!

Madame Mahima said...

shit im so late for this post! how how why!?
ok anyway i thought we were ignoring the mean trolls?

indians can honestly be such idiots...everytime i tell someone i'm south indian they're reaction is always 'oh! but u look north indian! ure fair!'
*smacks forehead*

what gives? im not even going to go into personality and all but who said fair was beautiful?

when there was rishta on the horizon the first question the grooms cousin asked was 'but is she fair?!!?!?!?'
i'd love to see what would happen if their bride turned out to be ultra pale but looked like a dog.

indians need to be shaken. hard.

Vasu the terrible said...

@gk - I think we are getting into a spiral loop of telling others not to suppress our own right to speak while literally suppressing theirs. This spiral has been going on from almost everyone's end. There is something in this world called "agree to disagree". Its a good tool you know.. no one seems to follow that.

While I agree with you on the fact that discrimination/racist behaviour is gender neutral behaviour, I dont quiet agree on why it is ok to be like that. Yes, women in India are as much guilty of it as men are. Though I dont agree that there exist a gender predisposition to being racist, I strongly feel that more dark women and men, more greying women and men, more bald women and men etc. should have the same chance of a decent life as a hot, slim, fair, sexy model. There I have to agree with the original article of Megha.

In a way I seem to be agreeing with both of you.

Unforgiven - I am totally lost as to what you were saying ? Was my post so complicated ? I hope the next time, you take a little more time to read what I posted. If its tiring, ignore me man. I will understand that :D..But just for the record, I am not upset by wht happened between megha and her aunts.I completely sympathise with how she feels about being labeled dark. Infact, I do support her anti-fairness cream ad. I am personally against such products myself. I just want to correct the notion its all a man's doing. Even men get labeled. Being labeled is tough on everyone man, woman. So I agree in part with what GK says that even a man gets labeled. But I dont agree with his statements that its ok to be labeled.

vasu

Deaths Head Roy said...

True and it pisses me off every single fucking time they show that stupid ads for Fairness creams on TV!!! And now, they had to make one for men too!!! Give me a damn break....whenever did Fairness equate to beauty. Perhaps some of my "fair" friends may think so, but I certainly don't. I am proud to be dark skinned and will stay so. Hmm, perhaps I am racist at the other end of the spectrum!!

M (tread softly upon) said...

Okay reading this kinda late. But this is exactly what I was saying a few posts back. Guess it's something that just cannot be changed :)

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ perspective inc: I know, it is so darn annoying. And welcome to the turf!


@ fj: Thanks so much yo, and Im glad. :D

@ grafx: of course you contribute! Please dont listen to gk if you want to hold on to your sanity...*hugs you anxiously*

@ rebel: ROFL!

@ why am I: I agree. It is a whole load of crock.

@ seriously frivolous: that sounds like an interesting experiment. I wonder what that person will gravitate towards....

@ mahi: i'd love to see what would happen if their bride turned out to be ultra pale but looked like a dog.

indians need to be shaken. hard.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I *heart* you, chalu sistah! THAT is so true, but the way you said it was brilliant and funny. :D

@ death heads roy: reverse racism...tch tch tch...hahahaha Im kidding, kidding! I seriously know what you mean..:(

@ m: I think almost every Indian has it drilled into their heads that 'fair=beautiful' and the abhorrent asverts on TV in India dont help either, sigh.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

adverts*...god I cant spell today.

Nath said...

seriously_frivolous: The fetish for the fair skin...is that an acquired trait or is it in-born. What I mean and would also like to know is...if there is this kid kept aloof from the world for years and suddenly introduced to "people" would he/she still find fair skin more attractive? What is it in us that craves for the lighter skin.
Combination of factors. The basic idea of beauty has a biological basis -- people with symmetric faces and fat levels somewhere in the middle of the bell curve and so on are more likely to survive long enough to have and protect kids. However, the only downside of excessively dark skin I'm aware of is that it can lead to low vitamin D levels; this particular bias, it would seem, it largely social rather than evolutionary in origin.

Madame Mahima: indians need to be shaken. hard.
Er, because daft ideas of beauty are a uniquely Indian thing, right? It's not, as GK said, like the Chinese had a custom of binding people's feet up to and beyond the onset of gangrene. It's not as if comfortably-off people all over the world habitually staple bits of metal to various body parts for decorative reasons.

indians can honestly be such idiots...everytime i tell someone i'm south indian they're reaction is always 'oh! but u look north indian! ure fair!'
This raises an interesting question -- is this obsession with skin colour as widespread in the North as it is in the South?

the wannabe indian punkster: adverts*...god I cant spell today.
I don't know. 'Assverts' seems strangely appropriate.

Swapna said...

Wow... That's quite a comment war.

@ Megha: That was an awesome post girl. Till I read it in your post, I'd never thought about the fact that every popular girl in school was fair. Wow... What does that say about us? (Disclaimer: I don't have anything against fair people.)

Am so sick of the wheatish complexion thing. Nobody knows what it means but the minute you see it in a ad, the girl is assumed to be dark. And every guy's matrimonial ad always says "fair and beautiful" - I mean, give me a break.

At every marriage I've gone to, the first thing I've heard elders comment on is "Good, he's fair" or "acho, he's so dark" with approval or disapproval in their voices.

Raindrop said...

gk, ├Żou're actually an undercover genius, aren't you?

But just in case you're not, this is directed at you.

First off, nobody uses the term negro anymore, not unless they're affiliated to the KKK or the Aryan Brotherhood. (Yes, the AB hates you if you're brown, even if you cry yourself hoarse about how Aryan is actually a SANSKRIT word and so you should be included in their little hate club too.)

It usually helps not to be inoffensive, I'm surprised you missed that lesson at your B school with its impressive ranking.

A preference for good teeth and a pleasing personality cannot by any stretch be likened to a preference for fair skin. The former gives you a survival advantage. Good teeth are an indicator of good health. A pleasing personality is a good indicator of good mental health. These are traits that are desirable in a spouse. Also, if you were paying close attention, you'd notice that the author of the post didn't say or otherwise imply that a preference for beauty in a spouse was a bad thing.

But a preference for fair skin? It might get you fair skinned offspring, but that only offers you a survival advantage if

a) You're living near the Arctic circle and are sun-deprived for months at a time and are therefore unable to absorb sufficient amounts of vitamin D.

AND

b) You don't have access to vitamin D supplements. And most people in the developed countries of the Arctic DO have easy access to vitamin supplements.

OR

c) You want a career in the adult film industry and don't have access to peroxide. (And no, I'm not dissing blondes here. I'm dissing you.)

But if you're living in the tropics, fair skin is associated with as much as a ten fold increase in the incidence of skin cancer.

And why on earth should anyone be insecure about dark/tanned skin? I'm just curious as to why you automatically assume that someone would be insecure about her skin colour just because she rants about an unfair system? I'm annoyed that someone as talentless as Paris Hilton gets financially rewarded by society, but that doesn't mean I'm insecure about NOT being her. On the contrary, I would HATE to be her. What annoys me is that she has an unfair advantage over me SIMPLY because she was born an heiress.

And while we're on the subject of fairness, I think it's UNfair that some Indian men expect more out of their wives than they are prepared to offer themselves. An ugly man with a steady job might seem a good catch to a beautiful woman with no job. But he'd have to offer more than just a steady job to someone who is beautiful and doesn't depend on him for financial support.

But wait, let's add a dowry system and bride burning to the equation, just to spice things up (a la indienne) a little. You don't need to be a feminist, heck, you don't even need to be female to know that that's just plain wrong.

It's not just Indian men at fault. It's also their mothers.

Okay, I was TOTALLY kidding on that. Because I think we're all responsible, men and women alike.

But I see nothing in this post to suggest that the author was either blaming Indian men OR playing the victim card.

Madame Mahima said...

nath you missed the point.
the point is when people KNOW that skin colour isnt reflective of ANYTHING, then why do they perpetuate this 'racism' of sorts?
its ignorance and its stupidity on their part. and it pisses me off (hence me wanting to shake them)

whether its as widespread in the north or south or wherever is also not the issue..the fact remains that it exists.

Sravanthi said...

Lots happening since I last checked.

@unforgiven:
Dude you rock!!

@gk:
I think enough has been said to counter your arguements. I do not want to take up more space repeating the same things.

It is ridiculous for you to assume that I am insecure just because I do not agree with what you say. A little childish wouldn't you say? Didn't they teach you how to have healthy arguments in the IIMs. Just being a part of the IIMs is not a trump card you can hold to prove your intelligence. Seriously. Welcome to reality.

This post is not about male bashing or feminism. It is about the prejudices which people have against skin colour. Get it? There are many other posts on this blog where male bashing happens. Maybe you can pick on those? :)

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ sravanthi:
There are many other posts on this blog where male bashing happens. Maybe you can pick on those? :)

et tu?

:D

Saltwater Blues said...

howdy there :)

the wannabe indian punkster said...

Hullo to you too, Mr.Blues!Long time no see!...:D

Nath said...

Quoth Madame Mahima: nath you missed the point.
the point is when people KNOW that skin colour isnt reflective of ANYTHING, then why do they perpetuate this 'racism' of sorts?
its ignorance and its stupidity on their part. and it pisses me off (hence me wanting to shake them)


No, I don't think I've missed your point. I understand what you're saying, and agree with it (sans shaking). My questions are:

1) Why is skin colour any more ignorant or stupid than any other meaningless metric, such as foot size, neck length, piercings, facial features or eye colour?
2) Why limit to Indians what is a pretty universal human quirk (the assignment of value to otherwise unimportant physical characteristics)? Indeed, it's not even limited to humans.

whether its as widespread in the north or south or wherever is also not the issue..the fact remains that it exists.

Yes, that's irrelevant. I'm just curious.

Sravanthi said...

@megha:
Well the guy just wanted to wage a war about how you are a feminist. This isn't exactly the right post to start that right?

:D

gk said...

@ My lovable blogger friends

Tell me if I'm sexiest now...

"""" I mean, isn’t asking to specify your ‘well-settled’ career for a matrimonial ad, the most blatant and conspicuous form of gold-digging around? And god forbid if you’re actually a reporter, professor, writer, social worker you get slapped with a weak ‘life-long Master Dina-nath Jee’ tag because oh-wail-no-one-will-marry-you-now. Please tell me if you have seen anyone calling themselves ‘Not well-settled’ in their matrimonial profile.

When an Indian Man looks for one or two likable qualities in a future mate he is labeled narrow-minded and traditional. But a woman can have no personality, ugly face and unshaped breasts, and still expect a man who is ‘rich, impressive, tall, modern, have white teeth & full hair’ and that is considered perfectly lucid and unobjectionable. But I digress.

I have always seen, while growing up in India that the most popular guy in my grade would also have the maximum cash, 6 feet height irrespective of how much he reads.

When I was in 8th grade, our seniors, the 9th graders held an unofficial (hyuk), highly cloak and dagger kind of ranking system for the guys (only ninth graders) based on wallet appearance & height alone. And I personally knew most of the guys in their ranks, but what took me completely by surprise at least back then, was the guy who was given the title ‘most popular guy of 9th grade’. He was rich & um, tall to the point of being intimidating our security guard, and that was it. He wasn’t intelligent by any given means and I know that a ranking system made by pubescent 14-15 year old girls is a little skeevy but it makes an interesting point as to how this gold-digger obsession transcends age barriers in India. """


P.S.
I have to crush my uncontrollable temptations to individualy reply many people here...
If you don't think like this, don't assume everyone one doesn't...

unforgiven said...

vasu: I read it again. The problem isn't that its confusing. It's just that I was reading it trying to understand what you were trying to say. All I needed to do was realize, you weren't saying anything :)

raindrop: Good stuff dude. Couldn't have put it better myself :)

unforgiven said...

@gk: about your comment moderation thing, you seriously amaze me dude. I don't think I've ever heard a more stupid attempt at saying "I have no clue what to say"

gk said...

I give up... Someone pressed a few hot buttons (or rather I found an excuse)


@ Unforgiven

When I wrote only top 3 B-schools, you wrote top 3 IIMs…??? I never wrote IIM, so how you twisted your mind into believing that I’m from IIM…??? How you know that all top 3 Indian B-schools are IIMs…???

BusinessWorld puts MDI in top 3, BusinessToday (2005) puts FMS in top 3… May be I’m from international business so IIM doesn’t even come in the list, or may be I’m an HR pro so there’ll be only one IIM… This was just a small example of how you made foolish assumptions and got a wrong decision…

You are as fucked-up as everyone else… How can you actually rightfully say that other people are fucked up, because I see you are making similar mistakes and still blind about it…

Yes I agree Negro was bad word… I didn’t want to use black (white vs black), and Africans would have implied much more but yes, using Negros was bad choice of mine…

” judging someone on what they have "made" of their lives instead of what they were born with”
Are you aware of something called as office politics to get unfair advantages…??? Haven’t you heard common stories about intelligent but shy girl living a quiet life and on same note, a ‘dumb but articulate feminist’ termed as intelligent…??? May be when I’ll start categorizing different types of intelligence then you’ll agree that intelligence itself is a very ambiguous, very wide and perception based concept… But then do I need to quote medical studies which say IQ levels are almost constant from birth, which is something very similar to fair-skin, don’t you think…???
My simple point was preference for fair-skin is not racism…

”Wait, if you ARE tiresome, do they still need to ponder over why they find you tiresome?”
Yes may be I’m tiresome, but again are you so sure, like your IIM comment or your definition of intelligence…??? Even if you find me tiresome even then it is ‘your’ perceptions and ‘your’ mind, which says that I’m tiresome… Don’t tell me that if majority thinks I’m tiresome then I’m tiresome, because then I’ll use your logic to tell you that it is masses whose preferences for fair-skin is perfectly justified & you better carve yourself up to their standards…

”Because in a blog, people can only comment on comments directed at them. What if the comment was directed at someone who commented on a comment that was directed at someone who had posted a comment which was directed on a comment directed at me?”

When I said discuss comments, didn’t I say the same…??? I said shut-up for the girl who called me fucking ugly that is personal attack…

”I fail to see when is it exactly that either men or women have "innocent" dreams about marriage.”
Silly question it is yet have this… Innocence Dreams of marriage = uncorrupted desire of marriage = Aspire for what social system called marriage stands for (not dowry, not money, not status but companionship & growth).

You think women is not taken as innocent…??? By law a word of woman is enough to get you behind bars for eve-teasing case… May be you are not even aware of 498A…??? Leave that how can you forget civil cases where punishment is based on 51% probability not ‘innocent until proven guilty’ followed by criminal courts…

Simply try this experiment… Shout on a busy street for any girl “this girl harassed me” and people will laugh over you… But if a girl will slap you without reasons in same place others will also join her to have some treat… Try it in any village or any so called backward area and I’ll place a bet that you’ll come back with front teeth missing…

You talk of bad personality only due to coke-overdosed-street-rat but you forget cases of genetic impairments, accident victims (automobile, workplace)… How myopic you are becoming…???
May be tomorrow Sriram or Megha meets an accident and gets disfigured with vocal cords disturbed, so may be they’ll not complete an ‘impressive personality set’ but their right to live and desire is exactly equal to yours and mine… (shrewd example it is, emotionally disturbing but your mental capacity was not responding enough earlier)

” Dude, say what you mean na. Everyone has a life. Mine is just better than anyone else's.”

No, you assumed again… I did not say that. I just said I want to be sincere in a few things rather than rush over life…

You were not even in my side-comment-conversation with Vijayeta… When she and I talked of common women, then I raised this particular issue of livelihood… I did not even talk of any personal rights, and if you give more time then you’ll realize that from the beginning I say personal preferences are own rights…

You are talking of girlfriend without whom you’ll be left with your dick in your hand… And what is worst possible way…??? Are you now crippled and unable to sustain yourself…??? But the kid of Somalia is lacking necessity for survival of life… Yet your personal view and I don’t force you for anything…

Dude! I have ignored many sharpnels you left for me, & I know Orangutan word was for me (maximum probability)…

Words are cheap on this blogspace but not in top ‘3 B-schools’. There you have to stand frequently in front on eminent professors & 150+ students who grill you & shred your foolish assumptions from every word you utter…

And ‘Pigs’ have notions that top 3 B-schools are just the same…


I know Rahul, you like everyone have right to be asshole sometimes, but you are just abusing this privilege…



@ Sriram

O monkey brand…!!! Explosion(rabbits, kiwis), mutation(every lifeform), implosion(whale breeding), extinction(need I say) are parts of evolution…

And where are 3-4 places where I contradict myself…???

Opinions are beliefs without positive proof.
Belief is mental perception of experiences.
Perception is always emotion based…
Ask Dr. Yogi how great emotions are… If you are duffer who doesn’t know what goes inside you, others are not…

“why you is not trying to optimize something or manage something and instead wasting time commenting on blogs? Isn't that counter-productive and isn't the goal of management to reduce counter-productivity? Ponder that and lemme know.”

I’ll not point out your bad English as I’m not a dumb, articulate feminist who relies only on her English rather than logic to say something (like receptionists you see for pizza hut delivery counter)… If you think commenting on blogs is time waste then it is your view… I consider commenting on blogs as great fun… My management says be stress free, and I find it so relaxing to knock empty spaces on heads of people like you…


@ Grafxgurl

I used something called, “If” you are bored…

you'll see i "HAVECONTRIBUTED TO THIS DISCUSSION"
Let me repeat something for your contributions:
“people like you get together, sway heads in 'I agree, I agree', tell 'a dime a dozen' personal stories, then pump up your pigeon-chested egos satisfied that a great discussion just happened...”

But I admire your politeness (may be helplessness or inability of being verbal like a feminist)…


@ Dr. Yogi
I think I know why ‘unforgiven’ rocks… Courage, Yogi Courage! To face a Mahima-claimed Troll like me you need courage… (I’m strictly defining courage as courage, not fearlessness)


@ Mahima
I’ll ignore earlier disputes we had, because such verbal combats are part of life…

You have used right word for addressing me ‘Mean trolls’… Because trolling itself has now become such a wide expression word …

I know you feel I’m trolling here… But I do not have intentions of taking discussion far from topic…

You know Indians are to be shaken hard not for irrational preferences like Racism but I think it group-thinking… It is not fair-skin preference only; I think problem lies with psyche of collectivist behavior of Indians, that is society based social structures rather than individuality based social structures… But if you American style you’ll face other problems that is why I said let us not touch a few old nails of Indian system…

By my experiences with this blog most probably you’ll now take side of Tamilpunkster and disregard anything I say…


@ Vasu
I agree… “Freedom of right” is twisted into use as “Only my or my cult’s Right to freedom of keep Speaking… Anyone else is Mean Troll and is stupid…”


@ Raindrop

No body uses term negro anymore… you are right, it is now considered offensive… Yet I didn’t know that Indians who can tolerate words like sardar jokes, gori vs. kala, all-male-are-potential-rapists comment of ‘naari mukti sangathan’, all-men-are-dogs T-shirts will start taking offense for something like this…

Inappropriate attention to word Negro does show how much you read through all comments or may be you copied it from like umm from comment of ‘unforgiven’… ???

You know a lot about B-school curriculum…
Yes I missed lessons on Intercultural management & usage of ‘English language’… But Intercultural management is offered only as an HR elective in most top schools & ‘Impression Management’ is offered at XLRI only with many other electives so very few takers…

So whole of your assumption storyline started and ended with negro…??? You didn’t say anything else about comments…??? May be you were so put off by my use of word ‘Negro’ that you couldn’t eat your food to think how disgusting I’m… I hate myself for how could I use a word Negro…!!! :D

“I'm just curious as to why you automatically assume that someone would be insecure about her skin colour just because she rants about an unfair system?”

Tell me where I said anyone is insecure about her colour (except Sravanti who also automatically assumed that my arguments are stupid)… Your blogger friends themselves are raising this issue that they are dark… Infact I myself am saying that fair-colour is preferred just a preference… and preference for anything other than what current assignment requires is unfair… be it intelligence, be it fair-skin, and be it humanity at time of ruthless war…


What is difference between necessities of survival and survival advantage…???
If you answered this right then tell me isn’t being fair-skin gives you survival advantage in India…??? Being fair-skin do gives you a survival advantage in India, ‘dhakkan’…

And again pleasing personality is all about your personal choices equivalent to fair skin… Think of term ‘pleasing personality’: Something which is pleasing to ‘you’, like someone who says what you want to listen… (Unlike me: The Mean Troll)

Remember Hitler…??? Good teeth, good speaker, good personality and a respectable & pleasing figure for Germans, but majority of west still hate him and still find his views intoxicating… Pleasing personality is all matter of preferences…


For your dumb arguments about advantages of being fair-skin…
Being fair-skinned gives many advantage because it allows easy absorption of Sun rays and ‘preferable in India-Pakistan’. And tropics fair-skin advantages you are talking are outdated, because then people were out in working in farms… Today you might be sitting in AC and need not go out in Sun anymore, so your dark skin will actually shed it’s melanin … Now you see why fair-skin was considered as better earlier because then it told people that this person doesn’t need to work in sun someone like a ruler… Fairness was an indicator then but not now, but social systems you see, they change slowly…

Oh and Adult industry doesn’t give an advantage even if you are fair-skinned… Haven’t you noticed tanned bodies of porn stars…??? Duffer you seem by placing such self-cooked arguments… Have you even seen bodybuilding pictures, tournaments or read reports on how much sun bath they need to get/tan polish they use so as to properly highlights muscular cuts of their body through ‘tan’… Being tan gives you an added advantage of getting more photogenic than fair skinned with same features… (Now a few people will have an urge of picking up my porn star comment and place some idiotic ‘oink’ about it…)

Fair skin is associated with increased cancer… Right, because fair-skin is more susceptible to UV rays something I mentioned before… But if I’m spending my time in AC home, AC office, AC gym, AC/Indoor sports complex & keep out of sun with tons of sunscreens I don’t think I’ll get skin-cancer… May be a brain tumor but not skin-cancer…

But then if you won’t wash your face a few times you’ll get a dark skin and darker and darker and darker… So I associate dark skin with lack of hygiene & indicator improper health… Bad association isn’t it…??? Similar it is to place all blames for female sufferings on man…

But thanks for atleast not relying on male-bashing way for dowry cases… Certainly you have heard of only wife-burning because it makes great news, you haven’t heard of abuse of 498A because whoever speaks for against it’s ills is named as anti-women...


Side Note: Just a few days back TOI reported that 85% of women in Tihar jail of Delhi are mother-in laws/ sister-in-laws who are still awaiting court to proceed with their case… Next generation of female jail ducks will be girls like you who think 498A helps them… If you have a brother or later a son (or any married male in family), or even if you are a personal friend of family and you are being named in a fake dowry complaint filed by a bride, you are going to go for a trial with minimum 3 months non-bailable prison ride baby… Yes baby! Till now maximum dowry complaints have been filed against whole family including 5 years old child…

When you say feminist I assume you don’t imply you are a feminist because using feminist now is as defined as negro… that is feminist stands for being a radical feminist… If you are one like this Tamilpinky one is then tell me, I might have made a mistake of treating you with respect …


@ Sravanthi

No my friend, other than telling me that my arguments are stupid and contradict nothing has been said… If you do not agree with me about you being insecure then you were ridiculous enough earlier to tell my arguments stupid without debating so… It is just that when I put your logic onto you, you scream ‘bad logic, bad logic’…

Again let me play with your petty thinking, “Who said I was in IIM”…You followed unforgiven or someone else or you just assumed… Like you have assumed that world you live around is real ‘reality’…??? I think world around you is over-protected & ridiculously safe… Yes I agree with you that fairness issue is gender neutral but then why the damn sexiest remarks…???


@ Megha
No this is not my blog, but blogosphere is not your domain... And yes morons will use freedom of speech... guess what...??? Say something and world is no more inhibited by boundary of your so-called personal blog...


@ Others
Mahima said so rightly to Ignore me, and I’ll go… You don’t listen to me, but atleast listen to her…

Isn’t it what I was saying right from the beginning…??? Don’t pick me and I’ll not bug you… Just let me come, shake this male-bashing feminist and go away… in peace… !!! :D

WishfulThinker said...

I have hereby declared GK to be the winner, no lets make that SUPREME UNDISPUTED CHAMPION of this edition of the Comment Wars!! I think we can all go home now and let the lady of the house begin a new post. See y'all again right here real soon.

@Megha: Seriously babe, I think you should publish in book form your posts and more importantly, the attendant comments. Seriously. Just reading the comments alone is a tremendously educative experience. Now only because I'm a lazy bum who who can't be bothered to start an argument in the actual world, let alone in the virtual, I amuse myself here by posting the occasional frivolous comment, which certainly doesn't imply that I think your posts or the comment bombings that usually follow are frivolous in the least. Looking forward to more da!

WishfulThinker said...

I just couldn't help myself. For all the curious souls out there, Megha's original post had 1343 words and GK's last response had 2581 words. I wouldn't know for sure, but that sounds like some kinda blogging/blogosphere/commentspace record.
Oh, and I already know I'm jobless, so don't bother telling me. :D

gk said...

@ wishful thinker

Naa yaar, don't declare me winner... Winner is already Megha for her good writing skills... Although I never touch her personal experiences like PB because that'll be unfair and cruel, I couldn't tolerate when at times men is blamed for all ills...

My comments need not be so long, it is just that people say I'm fool then forget it & reply me with so many open holes that I cannot control myself...

I was writing a book for a year then my hard-disk crashed and so instead of working on that book I came here to bug decent people like you... :D


But tell me am I a sexiest in my second last response...???

WishfulThinker said...

@GK
No dude, you have to be the winner. Like I said, I prefer to stay out of all arguments. I believe that everyone has a right to their own opinion but I was amazed at the sheer amount of patience you have! For that alone, you're the winner. Maybe you can share the podium with Megha, someone else who I think is blessed with an unnaturally high amount of patience. :D

gk said...

And people please overlook my missing words in comments...

My old keyboard who regularly respond to dust rather than my keyboard strokes and small comment screen makes it tough for me... It is just that I'm more used to read test sized at font size of 12 rather than 3 X 3 inch of comment screen...

In case you overlooked whole comment, don't bug me... :D

gk said...

@ wishful thinker

:)
Everyone has patience for their prefered hobby/timepass... Like someone finishes whole 1400 paged 'Suitable boy', someone has patience of sitting in front of computer typing codes, some people portray patience in listening to others, and someone has patience of responding to Troll GK so without bias... Everyone portrays patience but in different way...

Actually I treat this blogosphere something like Chirkut Orkut or IM...

Raindrop said...

wishful, you're right:)

gk wins hands down. I've never seen such compelling, brilliantly logical arguments so casually yet elegantly tossed about, flouting the staid old grammatical convention of using the article 'the'.

gk said...

:D

Right! When you cannot fight with your futile logic, jump back to your expertize of fault finding in grammer...!!! Even Paris Hilton can compensate better than you in her videos, you know...!!! You gave me such an expert advice on adult industry so I guess you must be knowing, especially one with night vision camera...


P.S. (Last 2 posts)
names start with capital
Misplaced commas
Irresponsible use of 'and'...
pathetic use of 'if-then'... etc. etc. etc.

Moral: Don't try to be oversmart english aunty... You english is not good enough that I can't find faults...

Raindrop said...

unforgiven, I actually think you DID put it better. :)

and gk, you ARE sexiest. You are second sexiest man alive, after Lalloo. I've decided to copy your style and drop articles.

gk said...

@ Raindrop

Damn me for that stupid mistake... I was thinking I won't write ie ie ie then again I put ie...

Actually I wanted to know if I appear sexist with the reproduced copy of Megha...???


P.S.
bah! I still expect you to listen to me (faith equal to stupidity...???)
If you find me sexist with the article I just wanted to say only that...

Pitch Black said...

@ GK

Gk, I just went through whole 105 comments. A few basic points that just crossed my mind.

TamilPunkster is right, Fairness is widely spread racism.
You are right that personal choice for fair-skin is not racism.
Point is "It is society that defines what is racism. For e.g. you might consider white vs. black or religious struggles, which are defined by society collectively if they have crossed subjective threshold to be considered as racism." And you both are part of society.

TamilPunkster might be sexist but it is her blog, which has given her freedom to write whatever she wants. Your complete attention for this blog is unfair because:
Your views other than comments cannot be known through your blog.
Her views are not directly impacting you.
Considerations of her moral rights. Moral according to her perception as you can say.


You are from top 3 B-schools. For a few chosen subjects curriculum across top 10 is almost same. You must have read famous case highlighting 'failure of Xerox'. So let me say from a customer's point of view that you are in their brilliant technical team. Just to make sure you get this puzzle let me say from your quote of "Religion War" that you have brain of Avatar with team skills of Mackay.

I think you will understand what I want to say. Enough has been said from your part.

If you agree, you need not respond just let it go.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ raindrop, unforgiven, wishful - *clap clap*..people your patience knows no bounds...*bows*

:)

unforgiven said...

"I give up... Someone pressed a few hot buttons (or rather I found an excuse)"

Oh baby, baby, baby, I so knew that would work! ;)
Free entertainment like this is kinda hard to find nowadays.


"@ Unforgiven

When I wrote only top 3 B-schools, you wrote top 3 IIMs…??? I never wrote IIM, so how you twisted your mind into believing that I’m from IIM…??? How you know that all top 3 Indian B-schools are IIMs…???

BusinessWorld puts MDI in top 3, BusinessToday (2005) puts FMS in top 3… May be I’m from international business so IIM doesn’t even come in the list, or may be I’m an HR pro so there’ll be only one IIM… This was just a small example of how you made foolish assumptions and got a wrong decision…"


Wait, did you just spend two paragraphs on trying to convince me how I know nothing about B-schools? Hell, dude, I'd admit it! I am a software engineer who never had nor will have any aspirations to an MBA. You know more about B-schools that I do. Good. More power to you. I am sure this must make your balls expand by 300% every time you think about it.



"You are as fucked-up as everyone else… How can you actually rightfully say that other people are fucked up, because I see you are making similar mistakes and still blind about it…"

I am fucked up. I agree again. I'd love to say welcome to the club but I don't want to insult our members.


"Yes I agree Negro was bad word… I didn’t want to use black (white vs black), and Africans would have implied much more but yes, using Negros was bad choice of mine…"


Thank you. I think that's the first smart thing you've posted. Considering how much you've posted, dude, that really isn't saying too much now, is it?


"” judging someone on what they have "made" of their lives instead of what they were born with”
Are you aware of something called as office politics to get unfair advantages…??? Haven’t you heard common stories about intelligent but shy girl living a quiet life and on same note, a ‘dumb but articulate feminist’ termed as intelligent…??? May be when I’ll start categorizing different types of intelligence then you’ll agree that intelligence itself is a very ambiguous, very wide and perception based concept… But then do I need to quote medical studies which say IQ levels are almost constant from birth, which is something very similar to fair-skin, don’t you think…???
My simple point was preference for fair-skin is not racism…"


You want me to quote you an equal number of medical studies that state that IQ is NOT constant from birth and CAN be increased? I don't think that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. In your case, its positively hilarious :)



"”Wait, if you ARE tiresome, do they still need to ponder over why they find you tiresome?”
Yes may be I’m tiresome, but again are you so sure, like your IIM comment or your definition of intelligence…??? Even if you find me tiresome even then it is ‘your’ perceptions and ‘your’ mind, which says that I’m tiresome… Don’t tell me that if majority thinks I’m tiresome then I’m tiresome, because then I’ll use your logic to tell you that it is masses whose preferences for fair-skin is perfectly justified & you better carve yourself up to their standards…"

A priori arguments don't work particularly well when you're relying on such weak reason. Oh wait, I used a CAT word. You're probably going to give me another three paragraphs on how much bigger your di.. err, I mean vocabulary is?


"”Because in a blog, people can only comment on comments directed at them. What if the comment was directed at someone who commented on a comment that was directed at someone who had posted a comment which was directed on a comment directed at me?”

When I said discuss comments, didn’t I say the same…??? I said shut-up for the girl who called me fucking ugly that is personal attack…"

I understand dude. You gotta lash back when something hits home, right? It's okay, looks aren't everything!



"”I fail to see when is it exactly that either men or women have "innocent" dreams about marriage.”
Silly question it is yet have this… Innocence Dreams of marriage = uncorrupted desire of marriage = Aspire for what social system called marriage stands for (not dowry, not money, not status but companionship & growth).

You think women is not taken as innocent…??? By law a word of woman is enough to get you behind bars for eve-teasing case… May be you are not even aware of 498A…??? Leave that how can you forget civil cases where punishment is based on 51% probability not ‘innocent until proven guilty’ followed by criminal courts…

Simply try this experiment… Shout on a busy street for any girl “this girl harassed me” and people will laugh over you… But if a girl will slap you without reasons in same place others will also join her to have some treat… Try it in any village or any so called backward area and I’ll place a bet that you’ll come back with front teeth missing…"

Of course, "again", as seems to be the way you think, if everyone else is fucking up, its okay for you to do so too, right?



"You talk of bad personality only due to coke-overdosed-street-rat but you forget cases of genetic impairments, accident victims (automobile, workplace)… How myopic you are becoming…???
May be tomorrow Sriram or Megha meets an accident and gets disfigured with vocal cords disturbed, so may be they’ll not complete an ‘impressive personality set’ but their right to live and desire is exactly equal to yours and mine… (shrewd example it is, emotionally disturbing but your mental capacity was not responding enough earlier)"


Pardon my french but sometimes this is the only way to express what you are feeling.
What the fuck?



"” Dude, say what you mean na. Everyone has a life. Mine is just better than anyone else's.”

No, you assumed again… I did not say that. I just said I want to be sincere in a few things rather than rush over life…"

Logic 101:

Student's let us today discuss the statement, "Dude, say what you mean na."
Ideally, if you look at it, the person is "asking" the "dude" to say what he means". This therefore by implication implies, that the addressee is NOT saying what the person perceives he means.

As a side note, a typical response by a person with the brain of a three year old to this statement might be "No, you assumed again... I did not say that.", since he probably does not have the basic mental faculty of understanding that the statement MEANS that the addressee "didn't" say "that". An statement like that on your 6th grade finals will earn you a one way trip to the Institute for the Mentally Retarded.


"You were not even in my side-comment-conversation with Vijayeta… When she and I talked of common women, then I raised this particular issue of livelihood… I did not even talk of any personal rights, and if you give more time then you’ll realize that from the beginning I say personal preferences are own rights…"

(Maybe I am just dumb, or I just like typing this over and over again)
What the fuck?!?

"You are talking of girlfriend without whom you’ll be left with your dick in your hand… And what is worst possible way…??? Are you now crippled and unable to sustain yourself…??? But the kid of Somalia is lacking necessity for survival of life… Yet your personal view and I don’t force you for anything…"

Well, that depends on where is my hand positioned when my dick ends up in it, now doesn't it?


"Dude! I have ignored many sharpnels you left for me, & I know Orangutan word was for me (maximum probability)…"

"& I know Orangutan word was for me (maximum probablity)..."

Grammar : F
Construction : F
Logic : C
Stupidity : A

BTW, which qouta did you come through on in that "top 3 B-school"? SC, ST or OBC?
Oh don't tell me you cleared general. I'll weep for the future of a country where top 3 B-schools can accept someone of your immense intellect. :(


"Words are cheap on this blogspace but not in top ‘3 B-schools’. There you have to stand frequently in front on eminent professors & 150+ students who grill you & shred your foolish assumptions from every word you utter…"

Dude, you must talk "really" fucking well, 'cause your writing, well..


"And ‘Pigs’ have notions that top 3 B-schools are just the same…"

Really? You know some pretty smart pigs man. Most I know can just grunt or just use a LOT of "..."'s



"I know Rahul, you like everyone have right to be asshole sometimes, but you are just abusing this privilege…"

Unlike you who is making good use of it?
For someone who is in a "top 3 B-school" and works 100+ hours a week, you sure seem to have a LOT of time for posting.



Great intellect at work, no doubt :)

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ unforgiven: ROFL!

Sriram said...

@ GK

"“why you is not trying to optimize something or manage something and instead wasting time commenting on blogs? Isn't that counter-productive and isn't the goal of management to reduce counter-productivity? Ponder that and lemme know.”" - hooked line and sinker!

Dude, read all my previous comments and see if you find a grammatical error. And then, with that comment, can't you realise i'm trying to get down to your level of grammar? So much to "top 3 B-school". And I wonder how effective your "management" skills are, cuz clearly, you can't understand implied meanings/situations.

Good times!!

gk said...

@ Unforgiven

Is that your best...??? Well you can do better than that always... I mean try to avoid repetitions & giving trite remarks... It takes out fun... You can try Shekhar Suman style you know... Try it this time...

But I quite like your style, please always come back here...

So let entertainment begin... Although I wanted to include almost every of your surety remarks and hypothesis but I'll stick myself to some of your glaring flaws...


Those 2 paragraphs about Top 3 bschools were meant to tell you that you make stupid assumptions... Well I see it didn't work... You did it again...


So you are software programmer... but then what you do for living...??? I think I can take a guess at it, which I'll tell you in next post...


Leave that, let me quote your sentence:
"why is it that since other people are fucked up, its okay for us to be fucked up also?"

Should I start dissecting english and logic... or you'll do it yourself...???
Let me help you with that bit... Earlier you said others are fucked up, while you are not... Now you say you are already fucked up...??? Yaa it is great somersault but not preferable... May be I'm too harsh, so I'll say you just forgot what you wrote before...


And yes I want you to quote me studies with types of patients & 'percentage increases' mentioned... Because I fear you missed the 2 parts of such reports which mentions:
1) Percentage increases in IQ levels. Certainly it is not GDP, where 0.1 will make hell lot of difference(GDP: Gross domestic product, rest you can google... Being a software programmer at times is not that great you know...)

2) Major differences are seen 'only' in people with learning disabilities...
Oh is that how you are now a self-made man...??? Great! I'm so proud of you... So how much difference you got in your IQ levels...???


"A priori arguments don't work particularly well when you're relying on such weak reason. Oh wait, I used a CAT word. You're probably going to give me another three paragraphs on how much bigger your di.. err, I mean vocabulary is?"
Were you a 'Dummy Variable for setting lowest IQ Benchmarks' in your test...???... Remind me to give you something easier to analyze next time...okkie???


"I understand dude. You gotta lash back when something hits home, right? It's okay, looks aren't everything!"
Isn't that your core-competency which actually got you the privilege...???


"Of course, "again", as seems to be the way you think, if everyone else is fucking up, its okay for you to do so too, right?"
So someone else is fucking up again...??? Well remember it this time, no somersaults will be allowed next time...


"Pardon my french but sometimes this is the only way to express what you are feeling. What the fuck?"
Don't be so hard on yourself, your mental capacity still is getting warmed up...


"Student's let us today discuss the statement, "Dude, say what you mean na."
Ideally, if you look at it, the person is "asking" the "dude" to say what he means". This therefore by implication implies, that the addressee is NOT saying what the person perceives he means."

Guess what...??? you again absentmindedly forgot to read your complete statement... Let me help you again... Here it is complete sentence you wrote: "Dude, say what you mean na. Everyone has a life. Mine is just better than anyone else's."

So here we see how you added your own assumption in the end... I guess you always wanted to be a teacher instead of a software programmer... But next time don't try to teach things just for the sake of teaching... So you forgot again or you are expert of such somersaults...???


"implication implies, that the addressee is NOT saying what the person perceives he means."
Hmm... Since you 'forgot' to add whole sentence earlier, let me knock a few learnings to stop echo between your ears...

Communication rule no. 1... Messenger has to make sure message and medium are perfectly aligned to reciever's medium of message...
Advance logic lesson: When you put "implication, implies" these are words for derivation of inductive logic that is still subjective to understanding with minimum number of messages...

If you didn't get it, please remind me to get you easy lessons in communications & logics also...


"(Maybe I am just dumb, or I just like typing this over and over again)What the fuck?!?"
No, you are just doing fine... It is just your primitive brain reaction to hide evidence of your learning disabilities...


So should I go ahead...??? And you know what...??? Today we'll stop here before you'll again start doing some somersaults and start grunting oops i mean repeating 'What the fuck'... But remember you are doing good... IQ levels do increase if you'll keep putting some serious efforts...


Acknowledgements: I'll sincerely like to thank a Somersaulting Pig whose continued efforts made sure that everyone enjoys... I'm really grateful to him for letting me enjoy some freelancing also...


Oh and do me a favor Rahul, please pick up TamilPinky from the floor... She is suffering from Hysteria... And don't forget to come back...


@ Sriram

You didn't read when I said I not in habit of pointing out english mistakes... Leave management skills of mine aside and tell me where are 3-4 places where I contradict myself... Everytime you come up with some silly new words but never elaborate 3-4 places...

gk said...

@ Pitchblack

I think I have understood what you wanted me to understand friend...

Guess we understand some common language so let Virgin smoulder BA...
Let me have some fun with this funny guy of bimboland...

I'll keep your tips in mind next time...

unforgiven said...

@gk:

I definitely have to start this with, dude, you seriously have some balls. I don't think many people here expected you to reply again. Either that or you're shameless. Why do I think that most of the people here are going to go with "latter"?



"@ Unforgiven

Is that your best...??? Well you can do better than that always... I mean try to avoid repetitions & giving trite remarks... It takes out fun... You can try Shekhar Suman style you know... Try it this time..."

If you learnt in the first time, repetition would be unnessecary, now wouldn't it.
I guess even my patience is starting to wear thin.

Okay, let's go through this once again.


"But I quite like your style, please always come back here..."

Why thank you! I also quite like your lack of style. I guess we're mutual admirers now eh? :)


"So let entertainment begin... Although I wanted to include almost every of your surety remarks and hypothesis but I'll stick myself to some of your glaring flaws..."

Man, can you at least "try" to be coherrent. I am still trying to figure out whether its Fevicol or Stix you're going to use to "stick" yourself to my flaws. Oh also, what the fuck, is a "surety" remark? Is it something you say to someone you are sure is an idiot? If so, then we're on the same page :)


"Those 2 paragraphs about Top 3 bschools were meant to tell you that you make stupid assumptions... Well I see it didn't work... You did it again..."

Oops, I did it again, eh? So did you! Made a statement without any basis or logic. Seriously man, ever tried tapping your head with a hammer to see if it makes that hollow sound?


"So you are software programmer... but then what you do for living...??? I think I can take a guess at it, which I'll tell you in next post..."

Wait. Even you can't be this dumb.
Let me get this right.

Did you just ask me that since I am a software programmer, what do I do for a living?


"Leave that, let me quote your sentence:
"why is it that since other people are fucked up, its okay for us to be fucked up also?"

Should I start dissecting english and logic... or you'll do it yourself...???
Let me help you with that bit... Earlier you said others are fucked up, while you are not... Now you say you are already fucked up...??? Yaa it is great somersault but not preferable... May be I'm too harsh, so I'll say you just forgot what you wrote before..."

Refer to Logic 101 intro lecture in my above comment.
I didn't say "I" wasn't fucked up. I just asked your belligerent greatness if you "thought" it was okay to be fucked up if everyone else was. My views on that subject were never revealed.

The best part of all of this is, YOU accused ME of assumption! Oh god, you deserve a PhD in shooting yourself in the foot :)


"And yes I want you to quote me studies with types of patients & 'percentage increases' mentioned... Because I fear you missed the 2 parts of such reports which mentions:
1) Percentage increases in IQ levels. Certainly it is not GDP, where 0.1 will make hell lot of difference(GDP: Gross domestic product, rest you can google... Being a software programmer at times is not that great you know...)"

So what does GDP have to do with being a software programmer not being that great?
Oh wait, I forgot, I still need to tell you what I do for a living as Software Programmer! So basically, you are talking out of your ass?

That's okay, we expect it from you, you can't just dissapoint us, now can you??

"2) Major differences are seen 'only' in people with learning disabilities...
Oh is that how you are now a self-made man...??? Great! I'm so proud of you... So how much difference you got in your IQ levels...???"

Again, of course *I* said that I am a self-made man, right? Jeesus fucking Christ, no wonder you keep accusing me of assumption! It's not that you're nasty, you're just concerned.

Which is why you are showing to me again and again how stupid one can look when he assumes :)

I appreciate it man. Talk about being a good sport eh?


""A priori arguments don't work particularly well when you're relying on such weak reason. Oh wait, I used a CAT word. You're probably going to give me another three paragraphs on how much bigger your di.. err, I mean vocabulary is?"
Were you a 'Dummy Variable for setting lowest IQ Benchmarks' in your test...???... Remind me to give you something easier to analyze next time...okkie???"

So instead of actually 'understanding' what I said, the best approach you could come up with is to ignore what was said and try to come up with a wise crack that even your Grandma would not crack in public?



""I understand dude. You gotta lash back when something hits home, right? It's okay, looks aren't everything!"
Isn't that your core-competency which actually got you the privilege...???"

From bad to worse. Desperation does that to people. I understand that too bro. It's okay, you are ugly, stupid, can't read and are now desperate too! But hey! You're still better of than that kid in somalia at least??


""Of course, "again", as seems to be the way you think, if everyone else is fucking up, its okay for you to do so too, right?"
So someone else is fucking up again...??? Well remember it this time, no somersaults will be allowed next time..."

English is a beautiful language. Placing a word in one particular place can mean one thing (which I intended) and an idiot reading it in the wrong place (which is what you did) can mean something so totally different!

It's amazing na? Beautiful language. You should try learning it sometime.


""Pardon my french but sometimes this is the only way to express what you are feeling. What the fuck?"
Don't be so hard on yourself, your mental capacity still is getting warmed up..."

What mental capacity? After that sentence, any that might have still been left probably just left my brain for cruelty by exposure to such immense stupidity! :(


""Student's let us today discuss the statement, "Dude, say what you mean na."
Ideally, if you look at it, the person is "asking" the "dude" to say what he means". This therefore by implication implies, that the addressee is NOT saying what the person perceives he means."

Guess what...??? you again absentmindedly forgot to read your complete statement... Let me help you again... Here it is complete sentence you wrote: "Dude, say what you mean na. Everyone has a life. Mine is just better than anyone else's."

So here we see how you added your own assumption in the end... I guess you always wanted to be a teacher instead of a software programmer... But next time don't try to teach things just for the sake of teaching... So you forgot again or you are expert of such somersaults...???"

I wonder where you got the idea that I am a gymnast from. *shrug*
Of course, I assume :)

So, let's continue the class,

..and students, if the "Dude, say what you mean na." statement is followed by statements which use the first person, it can safely be understood that they are implied said by the "dude" and not the writer. I understand this is a simple concept but we have some very intelligent students from a top 3 "b-school" attending today so we need to dumb things down to 6th grade level and hope they can catch up.


""implication implies, that the addressee is NOT saying what the person perceives he means."
Hmm... Since you 'forgot' to add whole sentence earlier, let me knock a few learnings to stop echo between your ears...

Communication rule no. 1... Messenger has to make sure message and medium are perfectly aligned to reciever's medium of message...
Advance logic lesson: When you put "implication, implies" these are words for derivation of inductive logic that is still subjective to understanding with minimum number of messages...

If you didn't get it, please remind me to get you easy lessons in communications & logics also..."


Yes, implication and implies are not exactly the best usage of words. Strangely enough, I feel quite alright when using them with you in that form. Maybe its got something to do with your extra-ordinary grasp on the language?


Oh, in case you missed my Communication 101 class, here is an excerpt,

Students, despite the fact that we need to communicate in a way that "everyone" can understand, there are times when one of the audience (sometimes even the addressee!) is so many levels below the intelligence of the others that nothing can be done for him to understand what is being said. This usually happens when it is someone with an IQ under -37 happens to sit around with normal people.



""(Maybe I am just dumb, or I just like typing this over and over again)What the fuck?!?"
No, you are just doing fine... It is just your primitive brain reaction to hide evidence of your learning disabilities...


So should I go ahead...??? And you know what...??? Today we'll stop here before you'll again start doing some somersaults and start grunting oops i mean repeating 'What the fuck'... But remember you are doing good... IQ levels do increase if you'll keep putting some serious efforts..."

Do you *really* want me to repeat it? Come on man, give me something to work with. I am tired of pulling your underwear down the same way every time!


"Acknowledgements: I'll sincerely like to thank a Somersaulting Pig whose continued efforts made sure that everyone enjoys... I'm really grateful to him for letting me enjoy some freelancing also..."

Is there a name for your condition? I don't think "delusional" quite covers it all.


"Oh and do me a favor Rahul, please pick up TamilPinky from the floor... She is suffering from Hysteria... And don't forget to come back..."

Oh she'll get up fine. Just once she is done rolling on the floor laughing.



It is you who I am worried about. You do realize right that sometime someone will get it in their head "It is a crime against society to let his genes even carry a chance of propogating"? I mean, even *you* could after all get an arranged marriage, right?

Some people are alive simply because its illegal to shoot them, dontcha know?



You should. You're one of them.

Grafxgurl said...

@ Gk -
“people like you get together, sway heads in 'I agree, I agree', tell 'a dime a dozen' personal stories, then pump up your pigeon-chested egos satisfied that a great discussion just happened...”

thats how YOU see it....we see it as having observed, experienced or felt the same thoughts....not all bloggers agree in a puppet-like fashion.... you HAVE to agree that people DO tend to think alike sometimes.. and if we dont.. then we speak out our view of things.. but .... politely...knowing that this is someone else's blog.. and someone's thoughts...you cant force your opinion on people... not in this way Gk...

Madame Mahima said...

good lord :D
megha new post please!

Scott Carney said...

I didn't read the 115 comments before this. IT was just too much, but I can say that this post is right on. The light fetish in India has gone on way too far. Fair and lovely has capitalized on it recently, but the tradition of favoring white skin goes back at least 4000 years when the Dasas (dark) were said to have been conquered and enslaved by the Aryans (ligth skined).

Some anthropologists have argued that the preference for light skin is really a class issue since only poor people are forced to work in the sun all the time--light skin was a sign of affluence and freedom from manual labor.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ mahi: I know eh? Its about time I put up a new post.

@ Scott: first of all, welcome to the turf.:)
I did read up on how fair skin was considered a sign of affluence historically, but its sad to see this curious form of prejudice being practised in some way or the other even now, no? I thank my lucky stars that my mum was sensible...some of my cousins weren't as lucky(case in point: my aunt)....sigh.

and yes, it is a 'light fetish'..I like that term! :D

Vasu the terrible said...

@unforgiven -

I think the dissing game between you and GK is of no consequence except see you guys entertain the rest of us here. But I wanted to ask you one pointed question.

>>I understand dude. You gotta lash >>back when something hits home, >>right? It's okay, looks aren't >>everything!

Just noting the fact, that most ugly people (me including) are almost always dark. Are you using that as a slur ? being ugly ? Thats hypocritical. Do you atall have a stance ? I see that you have none, except maybe being anti-someone for reasons imagined in your head.

I see you use, words like "dumb", "fucked up" as liberally as your tounge can wag. The point GK was making was exactly that.

If its wrong to say, "this girl is not fair enough and hence not good enoug", Its equally wrong to say "someone is ugly, or so and so is fucked up".

These stances are taken based on pirncipled existence.

I think there, you are being a hypocrite. To take a stance is not just about speaking for it, but display the maturity to not act contrary to its core principles.

anything contrary to this "Hypocritical".

vasu

Vasu the terrible said...

Its actually sad that the whole issue about fairness creams has taken a detour into b-schools, level of ugliness and whose balls have to grow how many percent..

@megha - unforgiven had made a comment elsewhere about how I am not as much fun as gk in terms of a verbal battle.

Do make a note of that. All he and GK are interested is in verbal battles and have least concern about the fairness creams issue.

vasu

maleficent said...

GK says
But tell me am I a sexiest in my second last response...???

And should you not be asking such intimate questions in a public space?

P.S: The basic rules of flirtation is that both members belong to the same species. Are you the same species as wishfulthinker to whom this question was addressed ;).

aradhana said...

yay!! im a bit slow in but the jubilation is still earnestly felt! im glad youre back!

hey how come nobody talks about saloni from saat phere(from zee)? or is it that its shown damn late in singapore? i think saloni is really pretty..its the face cut.

but i guess the expectations set for a woman exists everywhere. for example, a chinese woman was expected to have wide childbearing hips. currently, you need "humps and lumps" or "boobs and booty" to score on the dancefloor(or anywhere else for that matter). but at the end of the day, the emphasis is drawn away from skin colour and diverted to assets. which is just as superficial. sigh.

but oh well.im glad youre back! :)

unforgiven said...

@vasu: Missing the attention? It's alright, I'll attend to you a bit too, worry not! :)

"@unforgiven -

I think the dissing game between you and GK is of no consequence except see you guys entertain the rest of us here. But I wanted to ask you one pointed question."

Well that was sorta the intent but then, I forgot, stating the obvious seems to be your sole talent in life. Who am I to try to curb that!


">>I understand dude. You gotta lash >>back when something hits home, >>right? It's okay, looks aren't >>everything!

Just noting the fact, that most ugly people (me including) are almost always dark. Are you using that as a slur ? being ugly ? Thats hypocritical. Do you atall have a stance ? I see that you have none, except maybe being anti-someone for reasons imagined in your head."

Wait okay, so are you asking a question or giving an answer? Why does this seem rather resonant with most of your comments that I've read? Because, that's what you do. Type a lot and say nothing.
Oops! I did it too! :)



"I see you use, words like "dumb", "fucked up" as liberally as your tounge can wag. The point GK was making was exactly that."

So you mean to say that I should use these words more conservatively than my tongue can wag?
Let's think about this. Actually, let's not.

Sane people run the risk of having some cog somewhere break under the pressure. :)



"If its wrong to say, "this girl is not fair enough and hence not good enoug", Its equally wrong to say "someone is ugly, or so and so is fucked up".

These stances are taken based on pirncipled existence.

I think there, you are being a hypocrite. To take a stance is not just about speaking for it, but display the maturity to not act contrary to its core principles."

Are you sure you're not gk's gay partner or something? If not, you should think about it.
You guys think alike a lot!

For example, when the fuck, oh yes, I did say fuck again, and with the full liberalness that my tongue can afford to wag at (please don't run to your mamma screaming "Ma! That boy said a bad word to me!"), so when the fuck, did I *ever* take any stance on any issue?

Poor vasu, bachha vasu, bichaara vasu. Pissed off and dissed Vasu. I bet you must be feeling that knotting in your throat just as the first tear trickles down, right?
Hey man, I am sorry, I didn't mean to make you cry!

Okay fine, I am not sorry but I still didn't mean to!




"anything contrary to this "Hypocritical".

vasu"

Of course, and what dictionary.com says about is, umm, misguided respresentation?



"Its actually sad that the whole issue about fairness creams has taken a detour into b-schools, level of ugliness and whose balls have to grow how many percent.."

Oh so the entire issue was about fairness creams, was it? As in which one is better than which or whether they are good for your skin?
I think this is when you apologise to the author of the blog and slap yourself three times while spinning on the left heel as punishment :)



"@megha - unforgiven had made a comment elsewhere about how I am not as much fun as gk in terms of a verbal battle.

Do make a note of that. All he and GK are interested is in verbal battles and have least concern about the fairness creams issue.

vasu"

Megha, did you make a note of that? If so, do send me a carbon copy and don't forget to memo vij on it too!
Do add a P.S. that Vasu seems to have gotten it into his head that he can make people his personal secretary at his whim and fancy. She should get a good laugh out of that :)



Vasu, so tell me, how does it feel to live in your world?
Is the overall intellectual numbness hard to live with?


I mean, you MUST want to be able to think, *sometimes*?

Yogi said...

@gk
i dont think you read the word "tiresome" and there is a fine line between courage and stupidty, trying to sit and make sense to someone like you who just picks out lines, twists them, and points out an exception or something which may have happened, trying to nullify that, rather than actually view a basis for why and for what the article was written(color problems in india just in case you forgot) definitely does not warrant me to comment on it, it is stupidity, not courage..and please someone as "resourceful" as you who just browses through google for an exception before posting it, i think ill let it pass.

Saggistica said...

Your note of the color is applaudable, being from the tagged line my self of 'choclate' from 'wheatish' coz of those earlier days in the Madras sun, but when you try and point out that men are the only one looking for fair-er skinned women, I wud have to be on the negative, these days women reject more than men do, did u know that?

And hey girl did ya know that these days men do like dark skinned women. Havent you heard of the saying, "The Darker the berry the sweeter the juice".. and no Im not explanding on that.

I persoanlly think that the tanner women get sometimes the sexier they are.

silbil said...

i am so so so so guilty of coming back for the delectable verbal fight between gk and unforgiven and not actually contributing to the topic on hand ...
can i act clever and say but megha has already said what needed to be said and it's so pintless to say , ya ya i agree...

p.s one thing about this SIF types, they bring fun to any comment section...

unforgiven said...

I should be more guilty! I came here for the FIRST time for that reason :P
Umm, SIF types?

Thorpey said...

Megha,

I guess every comment space needs a loony .

Coming to the point where you say that competetive swimming leaves one tanned and has the potential to cause a post and comment wars like this...
Have you stopped swimming now ?
Did you feel that your height was an advantage in in your swimming?
Would love to hear your experience of getting into competetive swimming, and how you felt if you have given up now.
Have you seen the Popov training video ?

Hope that would take some steam of this space ;-)

gk said...

@ Grafxgurl

See, I'm not against agreeing to opinions... But as I have observed, or let me uote Tilson behavior studies where they researched and found people make blunders in masses... That is group usually ends up looking at most agreeable option rather than debatable option...

So I try to be devil's advocate not for sake of fun but to check so many assumptions which people think are right or not... But you are right in a way that what I see as my views, people find it forcing my opinions on them... Which is perfectly justified as we all have social boundaries...


@ Vasu
That is why I told Unforgiven to open relax his comment moderation... He actually have restricted his comment moderation and having fun here on Megha's blog...

You can just have a look for his addressing to your comments... Now this is something called as Trolling...


@ Maleficent
Well let's be broadminded enough and allow homosexuals to engage in flirting games...

You didn't read me ie mistake otherwise you wouldn't have commented over this... Let me rephrase again "Did you find me 'sexist' in that particular comment"...???


@ Silbil
:) I'm not SIF types... If you look at my comments from the start I always tried to contribute... Be it Racism, collectivism, fair-skin, personal preferences etc...


@ Yogi
Dr Yogi, didn't I tell you to be courageous not fearless...??? Fearlessness(Stupidity) is what comes after courage... You talk of nullifying point of comment... But didn't my comments actually asked to clarify the assumptions...??? You should pass if this is all you need to say...

silbil said...

SIF types?
there is a post of megha, if she'd be kind enough to give a link also on broken homes and cannibalism , read that unforgiven and you will know who they are!!!! or unforgiven maybe you can just search a bit, SIF stands for Save Indian Families and the men out there are a delightful bunch with imaginations that may put hans anderson etc to shame and logics so impeccable that mithun and rajnikanth both want SIF dudes to be their think tanks
not sure if gk belongs to that gang but never mind he loves a good pointless fight!

sorry megha, i am a good girl otherwise (with wheatish complexion)
but two questions,
why does gk call you tamil pinky
and also why does he treat you like a head mistress that is he
reports to you when people are saying unfair (no puns intended) to him...
w.r.t the post he said ' take a note of blah blah'
i did imagine you sitting with a writing pad and red pen (to mar errant children with) making copious notes on how your commentators are behaving...

and now i suddenly want to comment...
about men having innocent dreams about marriage which involves homely (read servile), fair (post says it all) and slim...
as compared to a well settled man that the woman wants...
now the difference requirement of both the genders.
being well setlled which means having a job indicates that you gave applied your intelligence and talents and therefore have some economic value attached to you unlike being fair or dark which you have no contyrol over and which anyway can create no value
ummmm no i don't consider beauty pageants as creating value of any sort

silbil said...

@gk, SIF men also contribute, always!!!!
one post that i wrote that reeked of feminism , had 40 comments in 10 minutes from the boys , most of them were the same comments with ctrl C ctrl v used liberally...
no one said that they don't contribute!!!!
and not only the quantity , quality of their comments is also rather humbling...

silbil said...

sorry all, there are a lot of typos, punctuation is totally missing in my long comment and there might be spelling mistakes also..
next time, i will be more careful

gk said...

@ Unforgiven

Here is another carrot on stick for you…


Very interestingly you avoided a few of your ridiculous comments and assumptions: For example:
> You assumed me to be from IIM, then trying to cover it up with how stupid I’m…
> You did not quote IQ studies you talked about last time, and again tried adding some comment about it…
> Quoting you "Yes, implication and implies are not exactly the best usage of words. Strangely enough, I feel quite alright when using them with you in that form. Maybe its got something to do with your extra-ordinary grasp on the language?"

But above mentioned actions of yours, you actually yourself summarized your position when it comes to rationality & logic… This is precisely what you are doing:
“So instead of actually 'understanding' what I said, the best approach you could come up with is to ignore what was said and try to come up with a wise crack that even your Grandma would not crack in public?”


But then let me rephrase your few “great opinions” from your last few comments…

> “who would face competition with a mentally retarded orangutan!”
> “I am sure this must make your balls expand by 300%”
> “Oh god, you deserve a PhD in shooting yourself in the foot :)”
> “This usually happens when it is someone with an IQ under -37 happens to sit around with normal people.”
>”we have some very intelligent students from a top 3 "b-school" attending today so we need to dumb things down to 6th grade level and hope they can catch up.”
>”Some people are alive simply because its illegal to shoot them, dontcha know?”

Well these are just petty personal attacks… Orangutans, balls size etc. You may try to criticize a reason of comment…



>”It's amazing na? Beautiful language. You should try learning it sometime.”
>“I wonder where you got the idea that I am a gymnast from.”
You don’t even have an idea that somersaulting also stands for “complete reversal of opinions/ deliberate denial of expressed opinions”

>” explain to me, why is it that since other people are fucked up, its okay for us to be fucked up also’
>”I am fucked up. I agree again. I'd love to say welcome to the club but I don't want to insult our members.”
This is called as somersault…

>“I guess even my patience is starting to wear thin. Why thank you! I also quite like your lack of style. I guess we're mutual admirers now eh? :)”
You are amazing Rahul… I don't think I've ever heard a more stupid attempt at saying "I have no clue what to say”…

>”So what does GDP have to do with being a software programmer not being that great?”
You missed linking reference to percentage increases mentioned with IQ…

>”It's okay, you are ugly, stupid, can't read and are now desperate too! But hey! You're still better of than that kid in Somalia at least??”
Thanks for telling me that I’m better than Somalia kid…
Personal attack again but I’m happy to point out again that so called feminists, rational girls, opinion givers are quiet at your great comparison…

>” Either that or you're shameless. Why do I think that most of the people here are going to go with "latter"?”
Keep thinking… Let these people enjoy the real trolling experience…



I know your problem… Let me quote you again…

“average intelect who can slog his ass off, simply to get that humungous Rs 6 lakh a year job”

Jealousy as well as Envy…

IIM brand, or a Mandevian, or XLRIite... No you cannot compete with me at anytime... 3 years from now on if ever you could rise to be a Tech Lead we'll see how can managers pay you better... Or may be within next 3 years after we are going to face IT competition from China you might be sacked...??? Let me put some more oil in fire… You think 6 lakhs is humongous…??? It is ok for starting level… With experience we command much more than your petty 6 lakhs…

There is no way you are actually earning 6 lakhs otherwise you wouldn’t have found it humongous… Now tell me that I'm mentally retarded, having lowest IQ, or fucked up logic... Despite what you say you are still programmer...

But in a way you have won Rahul… There is always a battle inside human mind… Rational vs. Animal… Your animal instinct has already won over your logic power… There are some institutes like ISABS (ridicule this too because you are unaware of it), which are specialized to let managers like us to handle insecurities you are facing… So I know this is a face you’ll put on “I’m fucked up, I’m arrogant, I don’t have friends” to hide your insecurities… It words with your peers but not with us...



Let me give you a small insight… from HIM vs. you dialogue from your blog… Him is not even bothered about giving you anything (Your very start was based in society in which you live)… You are just bonded labor in his court and you can’t do much about it… Well none of us actually can do anything about it…


Ok onto you now… I have hung long enough carrot for you now… Go ahead with your style and tell people what real trolling is all about… Try your best shot to grow my balls to 1000% and prove me a mentally retarded… All the Best...


And I’ll make your patience run out…


P.S. Please pick up Tamilpinky from the floor who is suffering from Hysteria (Guess what… you didn’t even know extreme laughing is also a form of Hysteria)

gk said...

@ Silbil

Pinky was a character in comics...

And if you'll read all comments and keep track of how things go between her and most of bloggers here, then you'll notice that people complain to her about trolls, about me & tell her to take action... And certainly she responds back to them ignoring any logic or rationality which ever come across... I guess it is because she is head mistress here...

Finally you call cntrl C,V as contributions...??? if you says so... Well we differ in here then...

P.S. But you don't seem to remember from our last discussion when Megha said I'm a wall & it is useless against arguing with me... (Please do your homework of going through whole comment section before picking me up again...)

gk said...

@ Prathap

I do not know what I did for such generosity, anyways thanks for your offer... Yet I have to say No to you, because personally I do not want to join any group...

Let me be me solely on my own...

Grafxgurl said...

Meghaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.. WAAAAAAILLLLL!!!!


new postttt!! hahhahha... cant you see Mahi and i waving our hands while we drown in this!! HELP!

karmic_jay said...

Oh ya that desi thingy for fair skin.
Don't people get that beauty comes in all shapes sizes and shades of skin?
Oy!
I for one will fall for dark and dusky any day..

Raindrop said...

gk, I wonder if you realize that we're communicating in English, not C++. (This is in reference to your comment about my commas and if-then statements.)

Is bad grammer(sic) your little subterfuge? I will concede that throwing us all off with impossible-to-read sentences is a clever little tactic. It's impossible to tell whether your bad logic is just a result of sheer unreadability.

And as unforgiven pointed out earlier, you provide amusement. You're the official bete noire, the chimp at the zoo that comes with the 'Do not tease' sign. No one heeds that sign.


But seriously, it's time we all stopped teasing it. And we should probably also stop feeding it those magic mushroom omelettes.

*sigh*

maleficent said...

GK you said exactly what i quoted.

But tell me am I a sexiest in my second last response...???

Scroll up and read your comment again to wishfulthinker.You are a liar!

As for homosexual, that's never an issue.Wishfulthinker seems like a Homo Sapien like the rest of us.You seem to belong to Homo-idioticus :D

gk said...

@ Raindrop

What more did I expect from you...??? Had you been aware of your mistakes then you would not have made such stupid shallow english mistakes in the first place...

Reasoning is not a novel where half of your brain sleeps while other half browses atrociously connected words... It is not by chance that you are unable to read simple reasoning... May be when you'll start thinking logically things will make sense... Although I doubt if you'll ever be able to do that...

Your dutiful fake sighs & regular 'GK is this-that' comparison cannot cover that you are not only deliberate fool but also a duffer...

gk said...

@ Maleficent

And guess what... you need to scroll up too for you didn't read where I covered up for 'ie' mistake... So read completely before harping Stop acting like a over-excited sweet-starved kid after finding a lollipop, read before rushing to put a comment...

I may 'seem' a lot to you about a lot of things but that doesn't mean that your 'seem'ing is reality... Tomorrow if you'll start thinking that "Maleficent is not dunce", it won't work...

unforgiven said...

@gk: So you had me pretty confused back there. I had an impression that I was talking to someone who was basically a retarded 6th grader pretending to be a "top 3 b-school" student.

How stupid of me, to confuse an example of the closest a living human being can get to completely brain dead with someone with some grey matter, however miniscule


Your comments will be hence ignored. You have proven yourself unworthy for even the most basic amusement. I am now going to go cry to my manager why my salary is just a humongous 6 lakhs! Right. Really.


Good night and good luck, because you'll REALLY need the latter :)

@prathap: I can't help it. Megha is SO hot man, I can't help but slurp up the entire screen! That's what gets me off, but how did you know?

Oh wait, don't tell me. Experience?


The anonymity of the internet really does bring the lion out in some stupid fucks, doesn't it guys?
I'd love to join your club. It sounds like, like, cooler than those frat parties d00000d!!!


Geez, this has become boring. Till next post or next blog or well, when boredom strikes again :)

gk said...

@ Unforgiven

Neither I'm brain dead, nor you are gonna cry... so let us cut out slack...

Yet I'm disappointed for I made 3 further post strategies for you... I could atleast go on for 3 more times...

Yet that doesn't matter, for I know you were simply trolling...

No hard feelings Dude! I mean that from my side...

maleficent said...

GK.You ARE Homo Idioticus. How thick can you be? Ofcourse you are the troll.
Just step back and look at the comments. You must have done something to piss so many people off.
Is this talent congenital or an acquired disorder?
I am asking this question out of pure acadmic interest:-/

gk said...

@ Maleficent

This is my acquired disorder... Does that makes you feel better...???


It is not matter of my thickness, it is just your inflated egos which somehow wants to feel better by putting me down by any way... That is why again & again you come up with these all these stupid questions...

And there aren't many smart people around here, for whom I should feel guilty of pissing... You people have tendency of getting pissed on anything which you doesn' match your stupid ideology... You said I'm troll, but had you been smart enough you won't be arguing with troll like me...

And this message also stands for that Duffer Raindrop & moneky brand Sriram...


How many times I need to kick your butt and tell you that 'don't pick me and I won't bug you'... But idiotically you'll again and again come back with some more ridiculous points...

MumbaiGirl said...

I have some versions of your aunt in my extended family.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ mumbaigirl: sigh...dont we all...:(

aradhana said...

ive got an email that is somewhat related to this article interms of the expectations set for the indian woman. its really sweet. but whether its true or not is a different thing altogether.

It seems that an article was written to a well-founded magazine, by an
English woman who requested a response from Indian men. I'm so glad she got
what she asked for (and more)!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------
This letter was written in response to an article:

Dear Editor:

I'm sorry but I would like to challenge some of your Indian male readers. I

am a White female who is engaged to an Indian male, good-looking, educated
and loving. I just don't understand a lot of Indian female's attitudes
about our relationship.

My man decided he wanted me because the pickings amongst Indian women were
slim to none. As he said they were either too fat, too loud, too mean, too
argumentative, too needy, too materialistic or carrying too much excess
baggage. Before I became engaged, whenever I went out I was constantly
approached by Indian men, willing to wine and dine me and give me the world
If Indian women are so up in arms about us being with their men, why don't
they look at themselves and make some changes.

I am tired of the dirty looks I get and snide remarks when we're out in
public.

I would like to hear from some Indian men about why we white women are so
appealing and coveted by them. Bryant Gumbel just left his wife of 26 years
for one of us. Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen, the model Tyson Beckford,
Montell Williams, Quincy Jones, James Earl Jones, Harry Belafonte, Sydney
Poitier, Kofi Anan, Cuba Gooding Jr., Don Cornelius, Berry Gordy, Billy
Blanks, Larry Fishburne, Wesley Snipes...I could go on and on. But, right
now, I'm a little angry and that is why I wrote this so hurriedly.

Don't be mad with us White women because so many of your men want us. Get
your acts together and learn from us and we may lead you to treat your men
better. If I'm wrong, Indian men, let me know.

Disgusted White Girl, Somewhere in VA.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

The Response:

Dear Editor:

I would like to respond to the letter written by A Disgusted White Girl.

Let me start by saying that I am a 28-year old Indian man. I graduated from
one of the most prestigious universities in Atlanta, Georgia with a
Bachelor of Arts Degree in Business Management. I have a good job at a
major corporation and have recently purchased a house. So, I consider
myself to be among the ranks of successful Non-White men.

I will not use my precious time to slander white people. I just want to set
the record straight of why Indian men date white women.


Back in the day, one of the biggest reasons why Indian men dated white
women was because they were considered easy. The Indian girls in my
neighborhood were raised traditionally. They were very strict about when
they lost their virginity and who they lost it to. Because of our
impatience to wait, brothers would look for someone who would give it up
easy without too much hassle. So, they turned to the white girls.


Nowadays, in my opinion, a lot of Indian males date white women because
they are docile and easy to control. A lot of Indian men, because of
insecurities, fears, and overall weaknesses, have become intimidated by the

strength of our Indian women. We are afraid that our woman will be more
successful than us, make more money than us, drive nicer cars and own
bigger houses. Because of this fear, many Indian men look for a more docile

woman. Someone we can control. I have talked to numerous Indian men and
they continuously comment on how easy it is to control and walk over their
white women.

I just want to set the record straight. I want A Disgusted White Girl to
know that not all successful Indian men date white women. Non-Whites like
Ahmad Rashad, Denzel Washington, Michael Jordan, Morris Chestn! ut, Will
Smith, Blair Underwood, Kenneth 'Babyface' Edmonds, Samuel L. Jackson, and
Chris Rock all married strong Non-White women. And, to flip the script,
there are numerous white men, in and out of the spot light, who openly or
secretly desire Non-White women over white women. Ted Danson, Robert
DeNiro, and David Bowie to name a few. I just don't want the 'Disgusted
White Girl' to be misinformed.

Stop thinking that because you are white that you are some type of goddess.
Remember, when Non-White Egyptian Queens like Hatsepshut and Nitorcris were

ruling Dynasties and armies of men in Egypt, you were over in the caves of
Europe eating raw meat and beating each other over the head with clubs.
Read your history! It was the Non-White woman that taught you how to cook
and season your food. It was the Non-White woman that taught you how to
raise your children. It was Non-White women who were breastfeeding and
raising your babies during slavery. It is the Non-White woman that had to
endure watching their fathers, husbands, and children beaten, killed, and
thrown in jail.

Indian women were born with two strikes against them: being Non-White and
being a woman. And, through all this, Still They Rise!

It is because of the Indian women's strength, elegance, power, love and
beauty that I could never date anyone except my Indian Queen. It is not
just the outer beauty that captivates and draws me to them. It is not the
fact that they come in all shapes, sizes, colours and shades that I love
them. Their inner beauty is what I find most appealing about Indian women.
Their strong spirit, loving and nurturing souls, their integrity, their
ability to overcome great obstacles, their willingness to stand for what
they believe in, and their determination to succeed and reach their highest
potential while enduring great pain and suffering is why I have fallen in
love with Indian women.

I honestly believe that your anger is geared more toward jealousy and envy
than snotty looks. If this were not so, then why do you continuously go to
tanning salons to darken your skin. If you are so proud to be white, then
why don't you just be happy with your pale skin? Why do you continue to
inject your lips, hips, and breasts with unnatural and dangerous substances
so you can look fuller and more voluptuous? I think that your anger is
really a result of you wanting to have what the Non-White woman has.

BOTTOM LINE: If I were looking for a docile woman, someone I can walk over
and control, I would give you a call. But, unfortunately, I am looking for
a Virtuous Woman. Someone that can be a good wife and mother to my
children. Someone who can be my best friend and understand my struggles. I
am looking for a soul mate and; unfortunately, you do not and CANNOT fit
the bill.

No offense taken, none given.

Signed,

Indian Royalty.






i think the indian man probably went too far on the personal attacks but when i got some of my indian guy friends to read it through, they commented that he made sense!

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ aradhana: That is very interesting. Thanks for sharing these two letters...an informative comment is alway always welcome here! :)

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ gk: this has gone on long enough and these arguments are going nowhere. I suggest you stop commenting. thanks.

@ unforgiven, maleficent, raindrop: thanks a ton y'all, for your limitless reserves of patience! :)

Let us stop this now, ok?

Raindrop said...

Megha, I won't tease it anymore, I promise. :)

unforgiven said...

@aradhna: The article is pretty dead on, except it doesn't apply with ALL Indian males. I have dated white women before for things other than just the fact that they were dumb. I guess it's that thing with stereotyping, right?

@Megha: I am bored and not commenting about that anymore but do let people have their fun! :) I do not want to keep screwing GK anymore but I will fight till death for the right of anyone else to do so!! ;)

It was fun while it lasted, for me. I am sure all of us are pretty tired of the stupid fuck by now :)

Thorpey said...

You didn't look at the swimming comment amidst all the shouting :-(.
Here's Popov's training Video.
http://www.wasa.asn.au/coaching/videos/stroke.asp?type=Freestyle

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@thorpey: Im so sorry, Ive been so muddled with this comment space, I completely overlooked your comment!

I think a tall person has a very very very slight advantage in competitive swimming...but skill, the power of your calf muscles and your speed is paramount..height doesnt even matter if you honestly have skill. :)

and yes I have seen the videos ;).

and I added the swimming bit in the post as an example of a girl being athletic...Ive never gotten tanned because of swimming, although the chlorine was horrible for my poor skin...sniff.

blah_blah_blogger said...

Aren't we missing something? These days, matrimonials don't just seek fair, cultured blah blah girls...they also seek MBA and PGs for wives...so that they are more presentable at family parties...

gk said...

@ Unforgiven
Frustated...??? didn't got me hysterical enough...??? want more carrots...??? I have seen a lot of your breed, programmer...

Munna, chal aage nikal... apna chutiapa kisi aur ko dikhaio, and you can boast to Reshu that you made me hysterical...


@ Megha
I acknowledge & understand...

silbil said...

megha have you done a post yet on matrimonial ads?
it's just on my wish list (ok ok don't kill me) it just seemed like you kind of a thing ...

unforgiven said...

@gk: Yaar, shall I say something honestly. Aside from all the witty bashing, flaming and all that, think about a few things yourself.

You are a stupid fuck, alright? You know that, as does everyone else, even if you don't admit it to yourself even.
You have the classic syndrome of a person who is not completely dumb, so understands enough to know that yes, there IS more out there to understand but is not smart enough to understand it.

Over and above this, you are opinionated, have horrible articulation and are generally irritating. I highly doubt if you *are* in a "top 3 b-school" but considering you even quoted some magazine putting MDI in that list, you may believe the B school you are in is top 3. Of course, that must be a constant thorn in your side because of which you have developed an inferiority complex that keeps manifesting itself a superiority complex.

You can't let go of your superiority complex, even to yourself in private because you are ridiculously scared of reality hitting you in the face and you realizing how low in the food chain you really are, despite your "perceived top 3 B-school" education.


Reshu is a good friend of mine, I don't even know Megha. I came on here to take care of a board troll (err, which in case you haven't gotten yet, is you). I didn't come here to disprove what you are saying, I came here to have fun at your expense, which I had plenty of, till this wave of pity that has overcome me.


I want to be nice to you, but you truly don't deserve it. You are a pathetic excuse for a human being, who in real life would probably shit his pants if he ever met any of the people he has been talking to here.


My sincere, and I mean this, sincere advise is, re-evaluate what you are doing. Re-evaluate why you have this need to prove yourself superior and why is it that you cannot let go of something as stupid as just some internet argument. Alongwith that, I would suggest having a little more "real" pride in your own college. Find out about the accomplishments of your own college, try to make the best of the education that you are getting there.


Alongwith, I'd suggest Art of Life and reading some of the works of Lobsang Rampa and the current Dalai Lama. If you actually try to absorb what they are saying, you hopefully may loose this constant need to prove yourself better.



Oh also, nowadays I think they have this thing called a phallic enlargement procedure in plastic surgery. Save up money and get that done. I have heard that having a 1" dick can make people turn out into something quite like you.


That's it.

My pity is exhausted and my amusement died quite some time ago.
No hard feelings, that is from my side.
Till next post, next blog, next whatever.


P.S. :- As a software design engineer, I make more than a majority of IIM A/B's make even several years after graduation. Welcome to the new India dude and try to experience it with your head at least slightly outside your ass. I showed your comment about using "programmer" as an insult to several of my colleagues and well, let's just say you entertained a lot of us poor "programmers". Thanks, I guess?

gk said...

@ unforgiven

Took carrot... didn't you...???

:D

gk said...

@ Unforgiven

This is first time actually you have talked... Let us talk some sense then... And I'll keep defining terms, unless you'll again begin your analysis...


Who you think you are when you say you came here to take care of a troll...??? I see it just overconfidence (confidence more than capability) and superiority complex (Perception of self with self created benchmarks)...


And what is result of your this move or smartness...??? Did you get rid of me...??? No you didn't... I told you I'll make your patience run out, and guess what I didn't even got into dirty warfare yet... Actually you came here thinking that you are some great walkie-talkie, who'll have some fun on this new troll... And your friends have to laugh not because you makde sense or had great fun, but because you were someone who could throw hapless amount of shit on GK whom none of your so called friends could actually talk sensible...

Even till now you kept saying that I loved screwing GK, which your attempt of proving what...??? and to whom...??? Well you may have read Dalai Lama or Rampa but that is all you did...


While I meant no disrespect to programmers who are equally important like any other employee, but if I was mentally retarded and insecure as you proclaim then why the hell you need to prove my retartedness to me...??? But I can atleast tell your level of understanding & tolerance when some stranger like me can away attention of you and your esteemed collegues...

I have a large number of friends from my engineering who are in IT field... You talk mainframe(outdated yet valuable), network, CNC, java/J2ee, pure algorithm analyzers, or even QA/testers who also called themselves as Software engineers... So your new India is not something very sudden or new that it is known only to you...

Actually your mental capability is just like a mediocre Indian, who thinks finance markets are doing great and doesn't have a clue about linking realty/stock market boom... Don't even start with me stating great only 2% of bad loan percentages because then I'll crush your point by telling you that such percentage is derived including loans which are against long-term property.

But I doubt if you'll even understand what I said above... Yet I hope you'll because some of my friends from your field do understand that...


You heard something about Economic cycles...??? Or may be you remember times starting near 1999...??? Java programmers at that time used to earn 50K, so don't tell me how great you are with humongous salaries... When you try to give me Gurcharan Das's new India scenario, your data set is only 6 years old and I won't even bother to go in details of hollow foundation of this New india...


You talk of salaries... May be you'll lay your hands on something called as "Functional Premium Index"... Let me give you a gist of it... IT(take any subset), You'll always earn less than any other function be it Operations, Sales, marketing, finance, legal, HR...
(Watson Wyatt Compensation Survey: have you even heard of it)


And yes you were very nice to me... I really can see that... I really appreciate your extra efforts of being so polite to me...


And biggest fool you are if you think I'll talk like this to anyone in real life... Not because I'll afraid, lack guts, or mentally retarded but because this exersize will be as futile in real life as it is here... Moreover why do I need to make enemies in real life when I can make use of them sometime later in future...???


Let me tell you again "Don't pick me, and I'll not bug you"...

Bahut dekhe tere jaise, chal ab aage nikal...

unforgiven said...

I meant that advise. I didn't think you'd take it.
I hate being right sometimes.


Cheers and *sigh* sure, I took 'the' carrot, if it makes you happy.
Poor kid.

gk said...

@ unforgiven

This carrot includes:

My Articulation mistakes
At times missing english words
opportunity to give opposite surveys
opportunity to add personal attacks in some many facts...


Come again...
(Hint: I'll follow 'Odysseux strategy' with you this time...)


@ Megha
I want to stop this comment war... but what can I do when despite my saying this fat ugly ass desperatly tying to be funny cannot understand "Don't pick me, and I won't bug you"....???

aradhana said...

@unforgiven

i guess no one escapes from discrimination. or stereotyping. im just glad that such men exist. not because they can bash white women silly. or any woman for that matter. only because the depth of character is admirable. but then again,a man who dates a woman just because she's an easy lay cant possibly have depth of character.


hmmm..im a very confused kid. lol..nevermind me.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ gk, unforgiven anyone who responds to gk henceforth:

this 'argument' stops here


I dont want to close comments,I think you folks can take a hint.

Over and out.

=)

nevermind said...

What fun:-D! Fight, fight!

Anyway, I used to work with street kids a long time ago. The girls would save up their money to buy 'Pour Lowly' in the belief that it would turn them pristine white. I didn't really know how to deal with this, since I was fresh out of school, but, well, I sort of tried. Am sure it didn't have any effect.

As for Indians and racism, it brings to mind the Indians who went to Africa at the turn of the twentieth century. The in-between world of Vikram Lall. And we all know about South African Indians, don't we?

But then a lot of Indians I know are incredibly racist both ways-towards black and white people. Complex.

nevermind said...

What fun:-D! Fight, fight!

Anyway, I used to work with street kids a long time ago. The girls would save up their money to buy 'Pour Lowly' in the belief that it would turn them pristine white. I didn't really know how to deal with this, since I was fresh out of school, but, well, I sort of tried. Am sure it didn't have any effect.

As for Indians and racism, it brings to mind the Indians who went to Africa at the turn of the twentieth century. The in-between world of Vikram Lall. And we all know about South African Indians, don't we?

But then a lot of Indians I know are incredibly racist both ways-towards black and white people. Complex.

unforgiven said...

@aradhna: What I meant is the same way you can't stereo type Indian males, you can't stereotype white women either. *shrug*

That's all I meant. Not all Indian males are that shallow and not all white women are that dumb :)




@gk: You stupid pathetic excuse for a human being, stop posting, it's getting irritating. Fuck your carrot, hope you shove it up your silly little ass and get whatever pleasure you can out of it. I am tired of your delusional world and I would prefer that you not shove it down our throats. Seriously, shut the fuck up, go away and please masterbate instead of taking your frustrations out on some blog comments.

'G' said...

at 166 comments and counting... i just wanted to drop by to say hey..

skin tone never quiet made sense and when i did see that fair and handsome add i was laughing ma end off...

as for the fair and lovely bit... never made sense and never will..

laters
g

Siddhu said...

Megha, thank you EVER so much.

I don't really think words can express my gratitude for what you have done for me.

If not for you, I would NEVER have found out about Emami Fair and Handsome! If not for you, I wouldn't have been able to buy the 10 cartons that I purchased. Now soon, you'll see a fairer and handsomer me.

Now lemme see if they'll call me kaala madrasi anymore!

LOL!!

gk said...

@ Unforgiven

"You stupid pathetic lekurtvnluenewnrtvwetlwetr ewtr et re te tr ewrt ewrt ewtr ew tew rtew rtew te8648566490646848645940946804e ibgre0br95bh54y s out on some blog comments."


Again took carrot...

:D

It's so funny to bug a piggy...!!!

gk said...

@ Unforgiven


Please try again...


(Hint: This time it'll be "The Nonengagement Strategy")

Vincent said...

I'm only surprised that it took this long for "Fair and Handsome" to be launched. The obsession with fair skin hasn't changed one bit. I'm sure it would've been a household name the likes of Fair &Lovely, had it hit the market 10 years ago.

MechanicalCrowds said...

I have no idea how I found this blog. Is skin color such big deal to all of you? Is that what the Brits did to you?

Punkster, if you're display pic is any indication, you're very beautiful.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

this is the LAST TIME.

the.last.time.

gk STOP.

Unforgiven, dont respond to gk even if you want him to go away..DONT RESPOND.

Saggistica said...

'idukum malai ne nu post podalana ovalodhan'

silbil said...

1.just struck me how because of the bloody cream , fair and lovely both words have become synonymous for us...
2.also i have realised that smita patils, nandita das, konkasan sen sharma and also chindrangada if i may add her, are all thinking men's sex symbols so men who like darker women naturally become intels....now that is an incentive of sorts.

ronnie said...

Did you realized you forgot Sushmita Sen, Aishwarya Rai, Shabana Azmi, Sulajja Motwani and so many others? don't be skewed to make dark is equivalent to intels. It appear only as jealousy.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ ronnie: please look up the meaning of this word :coherence.

You need it.

Badly.

ronnie said...

Isn't it better if you could explain instead of putting a puzzle for me?
Please elaborate.

ronnie said...

oh ok I understand. Well my above comment was not for you. yaa great post, good writing. I was refering to what Silbil said.

silbil said...

ummm perhaps ronnie thought that i want women to become dark so that they look intellectual...
it was an observation and not an opinion...
oh and i don't need to give any skewed views to express my jealousy as by indian standards i am safely fair (lovely also automatically) and still am against the fair and lovely ads!!!!
shit i have to mention my complexion now to make a point...
i must be the biggest loser in the world then!
but just to tell ronnie that it wasn't jealousy...

btw just saw a fairever ad, it said that fairever cream has 'kashmiri besan(gram flour i think that would be in english) insinuating that there is something speacial about the besan in kashmir that makes the women so fair?
are all the users of that cream demented then?

Raindrop said...

Yo, punksta, I'm linking you. C'est cool?

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ raindrop: you dont need to ask! Of course I'm cool with it. :)

Artful Badger said...

182 comments!?!!
I guess I wasn't the first to come here.
Well, I get that from my grandmother too.
" Tennis vayadi vayadi karathu poite. "
I used to get it periodically in India, especially in the summer. Its a strategy to get you to stay in the house.
Its gone down once I came to Yuu Yess Yaay. Now I am all fair and all (*ahem* yeah right). Honkie Boy.
Thats Ramani btw. I changed my name. I never liked my name that much. Heh.

Da Rodent said...

Ah., well.. not all think that 'babes have white skin'.. So., it cannot be generalized. However., I know that many just classify on colour. It is sad.

That ad is sick.. agreed :) In fact., most of these cosmetics ads are sick.

renegadefade said...

u found nursery rhymes banal and idiotic even in school? geez .. how intelligent were u? me, i only found out what banal meant when i read word power :)

Raindrop said...

Awesome, punksta. :)

Raindrop said...

I just had a very long conversation with my ex-roommate. (She's black, btw, and she prefers the term 'black' to African American) What she told me was slightly shocking.

She grew up in a mostly black town, and the darker black students in her class were often teased. The lighter-skinned ones were almost always considered pretty.

She pointed out to me that most of the popular black icons (Mariah Carey, Beyonce) were either light-skinned or biracial.

Many black families approve of any marriage that could potentially lighten the bloodline. A huge percentage of black men marry white women.

I wonder if it's just economics that's the driving factor here.

unforgiven said...

"She's black, btw, and she prefers the term 'black' to African American"
Even the police now use "black" to describe, well, black people :P African American used to be fine but over the last few years it has started to be taken as offensive.


"She grew up in a mostly black town, and the darker black students in her class were often teased. The lighter-skinned ones were almost always considered pretty."
This depends on the town. In the town I was in, one of the most pursued black women around, was well, quite true to her racial name :)


"A huge percentage of black men marry white women. "
That is incorrect. Yes, a larger percentage of black men marry white women than white men marry black women, but its not exactly "huge". It's still in the low single digits I believe (at least till when I had left, 2003).


Overall, yes, people are often attracted towards fair. Just like they are attracted towards bigger breasts and tighter abs.
Infact, throughout old english literature, "fair" has been equated with "beautiful"


Of course, it doesn't make it any less shallow. Coming back to my original point, one DOES look for certain things in their mate. I'm more comfortable with it being something that a person has made of him/herself rather than something they were born with.


Not everyone thinks the same way, evidently :)

Raindrop said...

Huge. That's relative. Yeah, the number is about 6%. But to a black woman who's having trouble finding a guy, that's a big number.

Historically, the term 'fair' was not only associated with skin colour, but also hair colour. I'm not sure if you've heard this, but Henry VIII was engaged to the Spanish princess Catherine of Aragon at a very young age. England heaved a huge collective sigh of relief when they saw that she wasn't a dark Spaniard. She was a redhead.

I still think fair skin is pretty random. But you're right, random preferences are a fact of life, not just among humans.

that girl in pink said...

ok girlie! you're getting too popular! 189 messages...i couldn't even go thru all of them.
just goes to show, "tanned and atheletic" isn't so bad after all. :)

Saggistica said...

Can I add you in my list of interesting bloggers?

Aravind said...

Funny that. This was being discussed in another forum, totally unrelated. But no, being a guy myself, I would not judge any girl on their colour. Just am sorry for those losers who do.

Ur enemy said...
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Ramya said...

Oh wow...was this 'ur enemy' guy funny or what? How ridiculous can some comments be? I has just put up a post about how I came across the father of a 7 year old girl who had been raped repeatedly by her 45 year old uncle...and along comes a commentor to ask how a 7 year old could know she was raped, how kids are fondled and kissed and one shouldn't jump to conclusions and all that crap. And he is from one of the top B-Schools (IIML to be specific).

And before this reflects on the mental capacity of people from 'top 3 B'schools' who work more than 100 hours a week...hey, I'm froom IIMB too and think I'm largely normal...;)

Coming back to the post, I just saw this ridiculous ad yesterday where a bank clerk looks displeased about accpeting money from a customer coz her hand is dark. And then she uses the magical cream and goes back to the bank and the same clerk won't let go of her hand. Yuck!!

Ur enemy said...
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Ur enemy said...
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Rakesh said...

I agree with you when you say that Indian dark skinned girls are at a disadvantage.

I just want to say that even women have certain preferences.For example lots of women won't marry a bald guy.Don't you think that is ridiculous too? Baldness is a disease for which there is no cure. Why are you not saying anything about that?

I personally believe people should be judged on their intellect alone.But then I am living in a fantasy world I guess.Women are as biased as men when it comes to certain things.

Ur enemy said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Vijayeta said...

I came (after a week long break), read and was highly amused!
And i agree with Wishfulthinker! The first prize goes to GK. And no, Megha's patience levels dont even come close to his. She was the one who asked him to shut up, finally, but he didnt. He went on and on and on and on... Awesome!
:D

Prashanth(MSP) said...

l.e.t m.e c.h.o.o.s.e m.y w.o.r.d.s w.i.t.h c.a.r.e.

1. I hate the fair and handsome ad.
2. I am responding to the post to
agree with you that "fair" not
always beauty.
3. AFAIK, fairness creams were
originally sunscreens.

I signoff here.

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