10/19/06

it's nice that you listen; it'd be nicer if you joined in.

There comes a time when we must give in to peer pressure. But the situation becomes a tad convoluted when you realize that through punk history, punks are the peer pressurers (I don’t prefer to use the word bully, for aesthetic reasons. Ahem). But I am known for having an altruistic side *cough*, and well, I digress.

Moving on, I’ve never really acted all OMGIHATEMEMESARGH! in the past. I still don’t abhor memes, but I must admit to feeling a teensy weensy bit overwhelmed at the sheer number of tags I’ve been avoiding, six at last count I think (eep!). But fear not O’ allegiant yet slightly elusive reader, I have finally resolved to work on my meme backlog and I can’t think of a better way to begin than to do a tag on feminism. And I must thank this relentless crusader, the person who single handedly forced me out of my TAG-A-BLOCK, Aishwarya of Kaleidoglide.

So the premise of the tag states that I must list five things which feminism has done for me. To be very frank, I actually found it quite daunting to bring down the large list I had conceived in my mind to a miniscule five, but oh well as people say, ‘don’t not follow the tag or you’re chopped liver’. Errrr…right, I made that up.

Alright, on to the meme.

1. When I was six, I set my eyes on the most bizarre object I had ever seen. It was a 30”x 27” poster print, and to my impressionable six year old brain it looked like two tigers being eaten by a horrible looking fish like thing and a naked woman with a gun sticking out of her. It scared me silly, but I couldn’t help but feel like I so badly wanted to draw like that. Day after day, I snuck that poster print out of my mother’s room and stared at it longingly. All my kiddie scribbles during that time was of tiger like creatures and sad looking fish, such was the influence of Dali, and yes that picture was Dali’s Dream Caused by the Flight of a Bee around a Pomegranate a Second Before Awakening. Fast forward to seven years later, and a morose conversation with my father. When I gleefully told him that I wanted to be a surrealist, my father looked at me like I had gone off the deep end. He told me that if I didn’t take up a career in science, he would never ever speak to me again. And after that I never picked up a pencil to sketch, heck I even stopped doodling for a couple of years. But I don’t regret that conversation, nor do I regret my decision to enter the murky field of pure sciences. Last year, my sister was allowed to choose whatever subjects she wanted in 11th grade and that makes me proud of my parents. They may have been hard on me, but the fact that they trusted her enough to make her own rational decisions without mollycoddling her or smothering her with over protectiveness is proof enough of their changing attitudes. And it makes me glad as hell to think about it, even now.

2. I HAVE an education. As simple and as clichéd as that may sound, being esteemed fit and capable enough to obtain an education is a big deal, considering the fact that for women of generations past, it was a luxury. In other words, I went to school, I go to university, I pick what I want to study and I am damned pleased that my options aren’t limited to home science or school for nannies or nuns.

3. My right to work. I can actually go to university and pick the subjects I want and pursue a job in the same field of study. My parents have never ever pushed me into getting a degree to make my future ‘matrimonial profile’ look appealing or to supplicate the arranged marriage meat market. Now before anyone self righteously jumps down my throat, I must point out that I don’t think arranged marriages are incapable of ending in matrimonial bliss or whatever. It’s just that, most of the arranged marriages that took place in my family (spanning generations) didn’t exactly work. It’s just a tad bit personal. But gosh, I’m digressing again. Quite simply, I’m glad that my job prospects aren’t limited to glorified whore, housemaid or a married baby making machine.

4. I have the choice to be single and to NOT be a mother. Now before you gleefully brand me a baby hating spinster witch, I'd like to stress on the word CHOICE. I have A CHOICE. I can get married or not. I can choose to have babies or not. I can choose to have an abortion or not. It’s as simple as that. A few generations ago, that was unheard of. A few generations ago, I would have been given in holy matrimony at the age of seven to a man who was twenty years my senior. A few generations ago I would have been expected to turn into a baby spouting contraption as soon as I hit puberty and that would be at the ripe old age of twelve. So yeah, hackneyed or not, I thank my lucky stars that I wasn’t married off at the age of ten or impregnated at the age of thirteen or burnt at the pyre (as a sati) of my middle aged husband at the age of sixteen.

5. I.can.vote.

I think that speaks for itself.

and finally I tag,

Neha

Deepali

Ragnell

Vijayeta

Mahima

Mumbaigirl

Jupe

Raindrop

and Primalsoup.

Post Script: Woah! The 25th carnival of feminists is up and running at Philobiblon and my post on witch hunting is featured in it under the 'horror file' (quite apropos, dont you think?) So hop on over to Philobiblon and be sure to check it out!

88 comments:

Nath said...

"Quite simply, I’m glad that my job prospects aren’t limited to glorified whore, housemaid or a married baby making machine."

A baby baking machine? That's horrible! I mean, a bit of macabre humour is all very well and good, but...

Oh. Never mind. Apparently I should read slower.

Anonymous said...

you can vote??hehe

Karthik B.S. said...

yeah u do have the choice to be a single! :)

Ragnell said...

Nothing beats the last one. From that one, all others are possible.

(And I'll work on this after I do some other writing projects I owe).

Madame Mahima said...

aye aye cap'n its on its way :D

aradhana said...

choice. i love that part. it helps one breathe easy knowing that the constraints on you is not by virtue of what you cannot help being(a woman). and happy diwali! :)

Rohini said...

I like what you said about having the choice. The problem I have is that the so-called feminists do not approve of women who make the CHOICE of staying at home with their kids...

Anonymous said...

It's a shame you don't draw, because you design some pretty neat layouts.

And how the hell did you figure out that I love talking about myself? :)

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Nath: Tsk tsk, someone should invest in glasses.

But I actually dig the macabre humor in the baby baking machine bit. Woah. I'm losing it.

@ Yogi: Yes! I can vote! And I shall! What are you insinuating anyway? :P

@ Karthik B.S: That goes without saying.

@ Ragnell: Ohh, I cant wait to see your list!

@ Mahi: It better be! =D

@ Aradhana: It ultimately boils down to choice, doesnt it? And a happy Diwali to you too. :)

@ Rohini: I agree. Its a pity really, because having a choice pretty much covers everything, including the decision to stay at home and raise your kids.

@ Raindrop: OOOO, do the tag pronto! :)

Deepali said...

Megha!!!

Just when i felt proud of having fewer pending tags *gulp*

Shall get to it soon :)

Szerelem said...

The fundamental thing is Choice no? Can you imagine not having that?? It would be such misery.

jerry said...

well there you go, cheers to your decision...

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Dee: But this tag is about feminism! So it must take precedence, no?

@ Szerelem: I know! Like I cant imagine living my grandmom's life in that generation. It must have been hell for her.

@ Jerry: What decision?

Sriram said...

So, I have a question. Do muslim women actually CHOOSE to wear the veil? If they do, how do we know its by choice? They could have been brained washed..

(and if that doesn't start a riot around here... )

Anonymous said...

I like Dali too...to me it seems so hard to be able to come up with a good surrealist work..so many just merge...

Whoa?! Pretty subdued response. Just 14 comments. Which is like the upper limit for the number of comments I get...

I guess as a culture gets more educated and well to do, the age of marriage pushes back. Kind of noticed that in the west and in India, across my parents and grandparents generations as well.

Nath said...

Sriram: So, I have a question. Do muslim women actually CHOOSE to wear the veil? If they do, how do we know its by choice? They could have been brained washed..

The fact that a person was brainwashed takes nothing away from the legitimacy of the choices she makes. Everybody's brainwashed. Nonetheless, the right to choose is the right to choose.

What's the alternative? Force them not to wear veils? That's silly.

Durga said...

yea u have choices for everythin..and wat you choose defines ur life.U looks like in hurry makin decisions.Nobody is bad on earth and the Way u approch some1 defines wat u r.Hope u meet a nice guy on earth who can make u choose the best choices.Good luck.

Durga

Durga said...

And belated diwali wishes megha

Durga

rajan said...

u think all this is cos of feminism but you are a priveleged lot. its not feminism its only your privelege talking. so dnt think too highly.

rajan said...

and u dint answer my qs on the last post, but i know u cnt answer.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Sriram: Ill sit this one out. Thanks. :)

@ Artful Badger: I know eh? Moderate feminism always evokes a lukewarm response anyway. And I adore Dali. I love the persistence of memory and the disintegration of the persistence of memory. Good surreal work is very hard to come by, actually. Oh and before I forget, if you like Dali you must like Magritte, no?

@ Durga: A very happy Diwali to you too! But um what you mean by 'U looks like in hurry makin decisions'?

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Rajan: Dear god. This post was very personal. Get it? P.e.r.s.o.n.al.

While I agree that the social system in India in a way makes me have and enjoy certain privileges which someone else is paying for, I most certainly do not subscribe to a deprecatory caste system and I will NOT tolerate your A-holic assumptions on the same. So stuff it.

Nilu said...

isn't this feminism thing about having a lot of sex?

Nilu said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
the wannabe indian punkster said...

well...having a lot of sex(or not)boils down to choice, irrespective of feminism, no?

yuvraj said...

good one...after a long time i crashed to ur blog and i am not suprised..keep rollin gal..

jhantu said...

Punkster am really puzzled by this post of urs sweetie.
"Feminism helped u to get education". Are you practising feminism of the middle ages by any chance??? Or are you equating the practises of child-marriage, child labor (of course for the feminist child in these cases equates to the female child only) to feminism???

As for this I’m glad that my job prospects aren’t limited to glorified whore, housemaid or a married baby making machine.. while it makes a damn good read it is as hollow as Arundhati roy's brand of nationalism.
Oh and no my right to bra-burning in your 5 points.
Keep the posts coming
;-)

rajan said...

I will stuff, but u try nd rite sense. you know tht it is ur upper caste wich is talking not u.

rajan said...

if u were in lower caste or u had less money u would not be saying all this. u first realise tht.

rajan said...

try to be smart. feministic sense is nt any sense at all. feminism is nly being shrill.

I hate 12 year old trolls said...

Why in the name of fucking hell are 12 year old kids commenting on blogs? Can someone knock some sense into crap heads and tell them that txt tlk s nt kewl? For fucks sake, i can't even read what that child has typed. I blame the parents for this. 12 year olds shouldn't be on the internet, much less be commenting on blogs. That is all

Sriram said...

Nath,
"The fact that a person was brainwashed takes nothing away from the legitimacy of the choices she makes. Everybody's brainwashed. Nonetheless, the right to choose is the right to choose"

Pardon me, but are you saying that the choices YOU make are because YOU'VE been brainwashed? That's the most ridiculous argument I've seen in a while. But, I'll play along.

The right to choose ceases to exist when someone is brainwashed. it remains only as an illusion. So, your argument becomes invalid. See the difference? I pray you do see.

Anonymous said...

I have seen the Dali and Magritte paintings at the art institute in Chicago. Actually, I remembered the painting, couldn't recall the name, but it turned out to be a Magritte.
http://www.jeremymercer.net/blog/uploaded_images/magritte-796503.jpg
I love the Dali painting with melting time. It turns out to be Persistence of Memory!
http://www.virtualdali.com/36SuburbsOfAParanoiacCriti.html
This is another one I like. There is so much detail and interpretation as you keep looking. "Embed" a lot of emotion.

Dont you get tired of all the random transimission of hate in the comments?! It pains me just to read the stuff. Blogging is supposed to be relaxing and stuff.

Szerelem said...

Ah! Dali!! I love him too....
On art, do you like Pollock?

hedonistic hobo said...

the way i see it, is that feminism empowered women, society, by making them ralise that they have rights. the right to demand hose rights. the right to own those rights. feminism struggles against female guilt, and that is one ponderous albatross we all bear, it is the device by which women are easily kept in tow. works the same way as jewish guilt. or hindu guilt.
feminism should eradicate (baseless) shame. someday.

hedonistic hobo said...

Rajan: Brother back off! This is exactly the guilt I'm talking about! You can't celebrate your feminism without having to feel guilty for all the luxuries that life endowed you with because someone somwehere is trapped in a ludicruosly unjust situation? So whould all of us then abrogate all joy and brood mournfully over all the injustices ripping through the shreds of humanity the world over, all the time? Or should we look up to the skies and thank whatever is out there for the small mercies we have and carry on, mindfully, but with hope? Thing is this girl, and many of us, have empathy, which is the emotion you should be preaching to. This post was as she said, a. personal and b. about something completely different i.e. what feminism has done for her, personally. Nowhere does it suggest that feminism or any other movement for that matter has managed to overturn all the inequities this world labours under but so what? The point of this movement is that we can embrace and assert ourselves as individuals, break the gender divide and realise our right to be. It's liberation not just for women but also men trapped in rigidly defined gender roles, so consider this, what has feminism done for you? Buddy let's just celebrate what it has achieved and the possibilities embodied within it. Phew!

I celebrate fashion feminism for making publicly visible bra straps acceptable because I can't be asked to invest in ridonculously unsupportive strapless bras. There!

By the way Punkster how exactly do you define your feminism? I'm sorry about becoming all pedantic, shoot me later, was just wondering whether you assert this identity from actually having read and understood the movement's inherent focus (deconstructing patriarchy, or even assertion within the patriarchal system)? Or is it derived from the same half-baked notions people have about feminism? It's the dirtiest of F words for a lot of people out there......Hahaha! This, despite Flannel. In anycase I'm just curious to understand your feminism as it isn't clear from the posts.

Cheers!

Durga said...

i Mean some incidents in ur life have dragged u to have marriage a choice..so i wish u get outta those bad memories and live ur life.Am not against ur feminism but it cud be carried on with married life also...i guess i mean somthin...

Szerelem said...

Hedonistic Hobo: Oh brava! Great reply to Rajan.

I celebrate fashion feminism for making publicly visible bra straps acceptable because I can't be asked to invest in ridonculously unsupportive strapless bras.
That is SO true. Good support is so important. And then feminists are branded as bra burners.

Nath said...

Sriram:
Pardon me, but are you saying that the choices YOU make are because YOU'VE been brainwashed? That's the most ridiculous argument I've seen in a while. But, I'll play along.
The right to choose ceases to exist when someone is brainwashed. it remains only as an illusion. So, your argument becomes invalid. See the difference? I pray you do see.


Afraid I don't. I hate to turn this into yet another 'is-free-will-an-illusion' debate, but it looks to be headed in that direction. (For the record, my position is 'it depends on how you define free will'.)

Everybody's choices are a result of whatever philosophy they were fed while growing up (as well as what genes they were born with). You and I were probably raised to value freedom, equality and so forth. Other people were raised to think that their imaginary friends would like them if they wore handkerchiefs in front of their faces. So it goes.

Do you really think you'd value the same things you do now if you'd been raised by religious extremists? I find that highly improbable. Who's to say when someone's brainwashed? What gives you the authority to say when someone else's fundamental rights cease to exist? If that was how it worked, you could claim that voluntary veil-wearers had been brainwashed by religious extremists, and therefore had no right to choose. Conversely, religious extremists could claim that you had been brainwashed by immoral liberal infidels, and could take away your rights as well.

The right to choose encompasses the right to make poor decisions.

rajan:
I will stuff, but u try nd rite sense. you know tht it is ur upper caste wich is talking not u.

You're in luck. I just happen to have an English-to-friggin-idiot dictionary at hand.

Ahem. Let's see. 'u lol that but stretchy cabbage. 1lololomg llama.'

mumbaigirl said...

Have done it.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Yuvraj: Its been so long! How have you been?

@ Jhantu: What I was trying to say in my post is that the changes in attitude, the choices (reproductive, sexual etc), the advancement of women in different fields (education, work etc) is that the progress is not so much due to feminism i.e. feminism gives it an identity, a shape. Contrary to what most people think, feminism is not a monolith which adheres to a strict set of rules. It constantly evolves, and to me its deeply exclusive and utterly cardinal to my personage. So do you finally understand what I was alluding to, in this post?

@ Rajan: Oh fuck off.

@ I hate 12 year old trolls: Amen.

@ Artful Badger: You must like the disintegration of the persistence of memory, then!

@ Szerelem: I do have a fondness for some of his works. I particularly like male and female. Oh and have you seen the works of Max Ernst?

Sriram said...

Nath,
"The right to choose encompasses the right to make poor decisions."

Fair enough and yeah, I don't have enough energy to get into the "is free will an illusion" debate.. Had one with my prof and I know how that went...
Oh and translation is good.. Let me try something to see if i can match rajan.

Rajan,
OMG, u r so ROFLMAO, innit? ROFLCOPTER, u r da bmb. txtng s da wy 2 go. LOL.

Sriram said...

On a related note, to write in "txt tlk", all you need to do is imagine you are a 12 year old kid who has no knowledge of grammar. Works all the time.

the wannabe indian punkster said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Hedonistic hobo: Brava! Though I seriously doubt that Mr. Rajan the merciful would understand a single word of what you have so wonderfully conveyed.

As to my feminism, I actually have a women studies minor but quite frankly, all that I have studied about second wave and third wave feminism only dispensed an identity, a shape to what I essentially believed in. Even while growing up my parents always goaded me to question everything which didn’t seem quite legit (to me, at least), and feminism (leaning heavily towards third wave although I tend to agree with most of what the second wave stood for as well) was perfectly apposite for my personal politics. So I know what you mean by feminism being the dirtiest F word out there, like for example its highly amusing to see the reactions you evoke when you tell someone that you have a women studies minor. Their facial expressions alone are inestimable. Although I must agree with you that it’s no competition against the universal ghastliness of F.l.a.n.n.e.l.

Ew and Double ew.

@ Mumbaigirl: YAY!

@ Sriram: BWAHAHAHAHA! *dies*

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ durga: Please tell me where in this post have I mentioned about not WANTING to get married or have kids? I specifially highlighted that point to illustrate the fact that I.HAVE.A.CHOICE.

Please read the post again, completely and PROPERLY this time.

hedonistic hobo said...

whateva, rajan's da bomb and nath and sriram know it.

i can't profess to being too enamoured with feminist academic writing, it's a handy tool for certain types of analysis. what i don't understand is the opprobrium the F word attracts. especially when there's FLANNEL out there.......omagawd omagawd it's on people!!! :)

mumbaigirl said...

Megha, the comments you get make my head spin. But you manage to deal with them so well.

Durga said...

Read My comment PROPERLY i jus said that"i Mean some incidents in ur life have dragged u to have marriage a choice".. so here i have a doubt u complain lot abt india and its problems.Are u anyway in to the ACTIONS to clear them or get it corrected or jus updatin on ur post and leavin behind the "shud be rectified problems?".

Da Interpretor said...

Fear not, dear readers, for the Interpretor has arrived to translate what durga has said.

*goes to work on durga's comment*

"Are u anyway in to the ACTIONS to clear them "
Translation : Are you for real? I am so against full stops, commas or even grammar. How can you write stuff by staying within the rules of the language?

"or get it corrected or jus updatin on ur post "
Translation : OMG.. it is so kewl to use "or" in a statement without an ending. I'm so kewl and you aren't.

"and leavin behind the "shud be rectified problems?"."
Translation : Ooh! see? I used a full stop at the end and also used double quotes in a line. Now, everyone can understand that when double quotes are used, it means I'm quoting someone, but obviously, since Megha is so poor at grammer, I'll make something up and put it in quotes so that she will feel embarased. That will teach her. I'm so kewl.

*********** end of translation*****
Whew, my job here is done folks. Remember, if a nosy, no good, grammatically challenged, txt tlkng troll turns up, just shine the "Warning : Mong" light and I shall arrive to help you.

Grafxgurl said...

after being married im realising VERY quickly WHy God made women..lol.. men are just helpless on their own.

politically_incorrect_guy said...

Talk about Feminism, talk about the right to exercise choices, and then talk that Those Women who exercise the choice of staying at home and/or choosing not to work are basically "Glorified Whores"... that is, to say that "I accept your right to make choices, so long as I like those Choices ". This is Feminazism, thanks for getting a BRILLIANT NICE example of Feminazism to show to rest of the world.

Szerelem said...

Yep .... some of his work. So you like surrealists eh?

Durga said...

@ interpretor Am least bothered buddy.I jus need to know wat she(megha) intends to do here by her posts.

Maya Cassis said...

hey there and first time in here.
went thro your post and could draw quite a few similarities between u and me...the part abt doodling and dad not accepting that u wanted to doodle...and later letting lil sis take up what she wanted....Your life events are the exact same as mine.
but years from then ,I have never got that inspiration back to draw again inspite of drooling over numerous art exhibitions...

Da Interpretor said...

Durga,
Why do you want to know that? Let me ask you in your language.

In anycase, out of curiosity, what do YOU do by coming here and commenting and asking megha as to what she is doing other than typing posts and do you do some noble deed full time and then work in your spare time while also helping society get rid of all evils



(It IS really tough to write five sentences without punctuations. it really is. You have some real talent there!)

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Hedonistic hobo: Rajans da man (or da bomb). I mean he's like a self appointed moral policeman for this blog! Who does that? OMG hes practically a philanthropist, y'all! Maybe we should organize a flannel attack (eep!) against the likes of rajan or something. That'll get em'.

@ Mumbaigirl: You know, I try to deal.....but I dont know about dealing with them well. :)

@ Durga: So why do I even bother? Why blog at all? I mean why does anyone bother with writing anything? All those authors and journalists or anyone else who writes for a living or because they love it, why do they waste their time? Why do you watch the news watching people who waste their time giving you the news? Why dont we all just grab a gun and shoot anyone and everyone who happens to bother us? What say?

@ Da interpretor: ROFL.

@ Grafx: Allo! Youre back! Yay! Heh, I'll take your word for it.

@ Politically incorrect guy: Brava! You get the clueless award of the year for missing the point by a mile. No strike that, I meant missing the point entirely.

@ Szerelem: Oh, I love surreal art. Its one of my weaknesses.

Oh and psst, check out politically incorrect guy's pearls of wisdom. :)

@ Maya Cassis: Hullo! You know, I didnt even try to draw after I had that conversation with my father. So I know exactly how you must feel.

Anonymous said...

I AM BACK!

And I shall gladly comply with said tag :)

hedonistic hobo said...

by the way bra burning feminists are actually a myth. what had happened during a miss america pageant in 1968 was that protesting feminists outside the venue binned not burned bras but by then the typo in the newsreport had been made and the rest as they say, tritely, is history.

Anonymous said...

If you were at a young age impressioned by dali's works, it does say something. Surely dali's work had impacted you quiet profoundly. You might like to think it is feminism that is expressed in dali's work. That may not be the case. What description you have chosen to give for that picture may be different from its impact in your vulnerable fragile mind (as a child) and such impact can never be fully reversed unless dealt with by a professional. Imagine the lunging tigers on the naked body of the woman. What your concious mind might chose to call as "Feminism" later in life as you greqw up, might actually be interpreted by your psyche when you are a kid as "rape". This adult explaination of child experiences cannot reverse the negative impact of the original experience.

Even Dali himself was exposed to readings on syphillis by his father who believed dali's brother (also Dali after whom dali was named) died because of his (Dali's father) philandering ways and that dali's brother contracted a venereal disease passed on by him and that Dali himself would die so soon. Just getting exposed to material on syphillis as a kid resulted in dali associating sexuality and carnal behaviour with the symptoms of syphillis at a very very young age. this affected his mental psyche so much that nothing (not eaven adult knowledge of what syphillis actually is and harmonal desires for sex) could disassociate sex with the horrific symptoms of syphillis. Especially discription of scabs, pus and bloddy scars in one's genitals. Dali dint really enjoy the act of sex because of this. This according to his own words and not mine.

Ultimately this led Dali to avoid any form of carnal contact and to rely on onanism as his source of pleasure.

I am just hypothesising here. Maybe your exposure to dali which you think is the source of feminism, may not be so benign. Especially your view of the male folk, your vicious rection to anyone with an opposing point of view. Maybe its something deeper and something serious. I am not suggesting you have a psychological problem. Maybe you have, maybe you havent.

I just wanted to ensure you dont cover up that child hood incident with imaginairy conclusions.

Dali's " Dream Caused by the Flight of a Bee around a Pomegranate a Second Before Awakening" is certainly not meant to be seen by children and I can imagine the pain and confusion you would have gone through as a child. I do empathise with you megha. I really do.

Dr. Indira

Szerelem said...

Re politically incorrect guy's pearls of wisdom...oh ya, I am a feminazi.
Im so sick of fucks like that...i dont think any sane feminist begrudges the choice another woman makes, as long as said woman has had a choice.
Re Dr. Indira - OMFG!!Are you serious?? I am temporarly incapacitated due to laughter. And even if Dali did have a fear of sex ummm what??? And I am sorry but everyoe masturbates....now please die of shock. And how does this connect to feminism??
Do you really think a child would interpret some of Dalis symbols as rape?? As a child?? Really??? Seriously????

Anonymous said...

@Szerelem - Glad you asked that question. I work with children and contrary to popular expectations, children are very perceptive. You expose them to something and they think thats normal behaviour. Even if it is a picture or words. Their mental state is vulnerable and are easily prone to being influenced.

As a child Dali was introduced to medical literature on sypphilis. This impacted his mind so much that he relied on onanism as the only source of pleasure. He loathed sex completely. My illustration of dali's childhood is just to show that how impressionable children's minds are.

Viewing dali's painting especially nudity and sexual acts is an abuse of the child. Its inappropriate behaviour and the parents should be arrested for that.

Whats wrong with a kid viewing dali ? is a selfish and sick attitude generally adopted by paedophiles.

Its a punishable offence. Dont encourage kiddy porn.

Dr. Indira

Anonymous said...

@Szerelem - I am not shocked by masturation. I am a doctor, remember ?? Your attempt of trying to paint me a prude is obvious. Expected behaviour of a person who is fundementally insecure about her own convictions.

I am just reacting to megha's statement of how the naked painting of dali is part of her feminist roots. What she thinks now in her concious mind as a sign of feminist identity (Dali's afformentioned painting) may actually be a concious coverup on her part. The very viewing of that painting with naked sexually aggressive images is an act of abuse perpetrated upon her by her parents. In all possibility unknowingly. (I seriously hope so).

Its clearly visible in her reaction to anyone with an opposing point of view. Generally expected reaction of such people is "Fuck off" or "Stuff it" and the classic sarcastic bit "Its so funny". Clear symptoms of an abused child trying to cover it up as an adult. My heart goes out to such people.

Dr. Indira

chandni said...

where have u been?? :) and how r you?

go see my meme also!

Anonymous said...

Dr.Indira auntee, please for the love of all that's sensible, READ!! Read the damned post. Dali has nothing to do with the feminism. READ THE FUCKING POST before you accuse someone's parents of perversion. It's not stupid and you're immature.

And no, you don't have to sympathize with Megha or me or Szerelem for being bitchy feminists who (horror of horrors!)say "Fuck off". Take your shit-eating judgements elsewhere.

In other words, fuck off.

Aishwarya said...

....once in a lifetime there comes a comment so breathtakingly stupid that you find yourself staring blank and slackjawed. That time has come. Megha is not a feminist because by exposing her to the works of one of the greatest artists ever, her parents were fulfilling the role of child pornographers. Have I understood he situation correctly? If so, may I stand around drooling and slackjawed for a while?

Yeah. And fuck off.

Sriram said...

Dr. Indira,
Excuse me for interrupting your fine rant there, but can I just say "Fuck off"? No? I can't? Right, I was abused as a child by being shown Dali's pictures. And my dear Doctor, do you even KNOW what kiddie porn is? You might want to look that up first. Which makes me wonder.. you keep trumpeting the fact that you are a doctor and you seem SO good at psychiatric evaluations.. were you someone who did your medical degree in psychiatry? Oh by the way, just so you know, no one gives a flying fuck to the fact that you MIGHT be a doctor (which I seriously doubt). That is mainly because it doesn't matter and all that matters is that you, dear "doctor", are a dumbass of the first order. And if you are a psychologist or even a doctor, how come you say you love watching people masturbate. tsk tsk.. naughty naughty! (don't blame me! you said it yourself here - "I am not shocked by masturation. I am a doctor, remember ??"... isn't that how you play this game? you take something a person says and then comprehend it as something completely different? I LIKE this game. Let's play!)

Ooh, and one last thing.. so, showing kids nude pictures is what kiddie porn is and so, I can safely assume you love watching videos of underage sex? I think you might be referring to Paedophiles, but hey, being one, I'm sure you know the difference, right? (see how I'm playing your game and I'm already better at it?)

-- Dr. Dali Das. (yes, I too am a doctor and that is my name, I use the other name to hide my one true identity. )

Anonymous said...

@drops of jupiter - I dont sympathise with either of you for being feminists. Feminism isnt a condition to be sympathised with. I however sympathise with megha for the trauma she had undergone as a kid. Being exposed to inapporpriate pictures at a young age. Unfortunately she is trying to explain the whole thing off as "Feminsit inspiration". But subconciously poor girl is hurting.

I juxtaposed Dali's life alongside to illustrate this fact. Dali (by his own admission) was traumatised by his exposure to inappropriate works (medical journals on syphillis) when he was young and it impacted his whole life as well as his art. People who have seen dali's works would definitely stand testement to the influence of frued in his work. Unfortunately megha is still in the closet fighting to suppress the trauma in her subconcious mind.

she cant do that for long. Somewhere it will come out and hurt her. Thats why I sympathise with her. You are free to use whatever words/phrases/language you feel like. And I am free to interpret them as I wish and post the same as comments.

If megha so wishes she can do what she normally does. Delete posts or moderate this forum. She might be a drama queen, but I do know she is hurting inside. Step out of the closet megha and accept what has happened to you as a child.

@sriram - I find you extremely immature and silly. I dont engage in silly tit-for-tat wranglings. However, feel free to display your intellect as colourfully as possible. Many would read your messages and know your mettel.

Dr. Indira

Sriram said...

"People who have seen dali's works would definitely stand testement to the influence of frued in his work." - Do you speak of one Sigmund Freud? or just some fraud like yourself? And surely, a doctor would be TESTAMENT to facts and not testement to it?

"Unfortunately she is trying to explain the whole thing off as "Feminsit inspiration". But subconciously poor girl is hurting. " - Aww.. how sweet of you. Being an anonymous nut in the internet and all, but you seem to care so much.

"@sriram - I find you extremely immature and silly. I dont engage in silly tit-for-tat wranglings. However, feel free to display your intellect as colourfully as possible. Many would read your messages and know your mettel."

Surely you meant my mettle and not mettel or
is there some metal inside me that I don't know about? I always loved Wolverine of the X-Men, and now, you tell me I could possibly be him? Oh and do you know what tit-for-tat means? Let me give you an example : You walk around, being your stupid self and someone comes along and shows you up for the stupid twat that you are. So, you get riled up and then say something harsh to that person. THAT is tit-for-tat. What I did to you was just plain old "showing the stupid for what (s)he is." And you say you are a doctor. Sheeesh!

On to more serious things,

"DR". Indira,
After reading this -
"If megha so wishes she can do what she normally does. Delete posts or moderate this forum. She might be a drama queen, but I do know she is hurting inside. Step out of the closet megha and accept what has happened to you as a child." - I ask you this : why does it bother you so much? Why is there such a fixation on exposure to pornography as a child? Could it be that you were exposed to some porn as a child and hence, tend to carry that as a "diagnosis" for anyone and everyone else. That does make sense, doesn't it? So, who exposed you to all that porno videos and pictures? Your dad? Your mum? You can do what you normally do by running away from the question, or you can admit to it and seek some counselling because clearly, you seem like a paedophile and what's worse than a doctor who is a paedo? Also, you seem to have a certain unhealthy affinity towards syphillis (wait a second! how DARE I correct you? You are the doctor and henceforth, syphilis shall be changed to syphillis). You might want to get yourself checked. Syphilis could be nasty, honey. I wonder how you contracted it though...

And to end this,
"Dali (by his own admission) was traumatised by his exposure to inappropriate works (medical journals on syphillis) when he was young and it impacted his whole life as well as his art." - I challenge you to prove this by prodiving a few links. Especially since I seem to know that syphilis was NOT the cause of death of Dali's bother. For the benefit of the readers of this blog, Dali's brother died of meningitis, not syphilis (ref : Davies, Betty. (1998) Shadows in the Sun,Psychology Press (UK). ISBN 0-87630-911-2.). And I'm so thankful for your permission for letting me display my intellect, especially since it is abundantly clear you don't have any to display. Oh wait.. I know, you don't respond to tit-for-tats.


Fucking twat. You make me sick. Pull your fucking head out of your ass before you start blurting shit. That. is. all.

Sriram said...

Indira,

To summarize the last comment : Dali's brother died of meningitis, NOT syphilis, which clearly shows a) you have no clue as to what you are talking about. b) you have an unhealthy obsession with syphilis (which you can't spell either, considering you are a "doctor" - and don't gimme the "oh it is a typo" shit. Go read all your previous comments).

Which brings us to these questions : Considering the fact that you seem to have a certain unhealthy affinity towards syphilis, who have you syphilis? Was it your dad who abused you as a child? Or was it an uncle? Did either of them have syphilis? Is syphilis common in your family?

Sure, you can run away and hide from these questions, but I really care about your mental and physical health. let me help you. I know you are hurting inside (no pun intended :D), but please answer these questions. Its ok to admit to things that bother you. Admitting is the first step.

sac said...

oops! late for the partay it seems.
megha, i raise my glass to you -clink-.
rajan, i accidentally spill my drink on you. feminism has nothing to do with elitism, mate, it's simply the quest to counter and eliminate the oppression of women. or lemme guess, you actually support and endorse said oppression, eh? get off on it huh?
and 'doc' indira, well, let me have a few more stiff ones so i can puke on you. projectile even. gah and double gah at how you can be so un-fucking-believably warped and stubborn. i second sriram's diagnosis above, and wait for one big mofo of a lawsuit somewhere in your future. enjoy.

Szerelem said...

Feminism is a condition? Ok. So is there a cure?
Dali was traumatised by medical journals. I am sorry but there is a difference between journals and works of art. What are you suggesting that art come with viewer rating? And how do you decide what is appropriate art or not?? And come on, rape, sex, violence have been topics of paintings since forever.
how we interpret art changes. As we become older, as the circustances we have lived through change so does the way we look at a painting. Oh, bejesus...i dont know why I am even bothering.

Punkster - you are blog rolled. hope you dont mind?

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Jupe: YAY! And I saw your lovely post too!

@ Hedonistic hobo: Yup. But of course leave it to the infuriating american media and the great american patriarchy to use a non- occurrence to their advantage. Barf.

@ Chandni: Hullo! Long time, no see! you did it too? I'll HAVE to check it out then. :)

@ Szerelem, Jupe, Aishwarya, Sriram and Sac: Thanks a t.o.n. I was swamped with exams and work for the past few days and I simply did not have the energy to deal with pseud- Dr. Indira's appalling comments. I cant thank you guys enough. Seriously.

@ Dr. Indira: Wow. Where do I begin?

Dali = Kiddie Porn?

My parents = Abusers?

Huh? HUH?

The others have done a fine job in having my back, so I'm really not going to waste my time on your awful, vicious and banal allegations about me or my family or Dali or whatever!

As Sac said, un-fucking-believeably warped sums up your 'observations' quite perfectly.

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Szerelem: And you do realize that you have been blogrolled?

:D

Anonymous said...

I'm finding it tough to get porn on the net. Can I have some Dali's paintings please?

the wannabe indian punkster said...

@ Anon: Rofl!

Deepali said...

eeeks *gulp* i still haven't got to the tag.
*hides*

drops of jupiter said...

achoooo, those little mauks for comments.. so cuteeeeee ..*gush

Anonymous said...

sriram - You are getting predictable in your responses. But before that let me correct your interpretation of my statements. I said "Dali's dad believed that his first son died of syphillis. Dali's dad thought that he had passed the disease onto his son. Hence he was strung by guilt and wanted to save his second son. Thats why he introduced his second son to the symptoms of the disease". I have tried my level best to break a complex sentance to simple ones. You should read my original statement posted above, "Even Dali himself was exposed to readings on syphillis by his father who believed dali's brother (also Dali after whom dali was named) died because of his (Dali's father) philandering ways and that dali's brother contracted a venereal disease passed on by him and that Dali himself would die so soon."

Secondly the work that is mentioned in the post should be seen. It has a pair of tigers jumping out of a flower and prostrated in the nude with open breasts is a woman. In the distant there is a wierd elephant. As many surrealist painters of that era this one needs interpretation and thats the appreciation of art. Take this painting and show it to your kid, its abuse. Cos, a kid cant interpret whats on it. It doesent understand the constructs of adult content with reference to art.

I agree my spelling sux.. But definitely not to the level of your comprehension. You need to go back to class 6 man.

One of the reasons I dont even get angry reading your comments are that you are a kid. This is exactly the way kids in kindergarden act. Your immaturity is displayed beautifuly, esp your vain attempt to portray me as soeone who might have been abused. Also in glorious display is the lack of empathy and flippant way in which you speak of abuse. All this points to only one thing. Either you are a sick adult or an immature child. Giving you the benifit of doubt I think you are a kid. If you are an adult yourself, I really feel bad for your kids.

Moreover you dont have etiquette and dont know the way to talk to women. Mostly you would be an abusive guy abusing the women around you mentally for sure, physically perhaps, sexually - I can only hope not.

coming now to the challenge. Dali's life, art and death have been well chronicled not just as an artist but as a psychiatrist's study. My statements are based on the paper "Dalí (1904–1989): Psychoanalysis and Pictorial Surrealism" published by Ma José Martínez-Herrera, M.D., Antonio G. Alcántara, M.D. and Lorena García-Fernández, M.D. in the American Journal of psychiatry. Ref:Am J Psychiatry 160:855-856, May 2003

There is difference between stupid google scholars who read tripod sites for their knowledge and real scholars who follow whats happening in the research world.

Showing nude art to children is inappropriate behaviour and is abuse of the child. Have a heart and prevent your child from being abused. In many countries its a crime punishable by imprisonment and name would be included in the proclaimed child offenders list. Indian law has also been suitably ammended to protect children. The recent domestic violence act covers physical, mental and sexual abuse against women and children. This law also covers molestation of minors. The complaint can be registered by anyone who knows that such a thing is happening. It need not be the person who is affected. It can be an acqaintance, neighbour.

Moreover showing nude images to children is morally wrong and has a serious impact on the child's personality as it grows up. Confused imagery of childhood and bottled up emotions make these people antagonistic, anti-social and sometimes into offenders themselves. In those days people werent aware of these things. Infact kids were married off. But we have to be aware that some of the things that used to happen is wrong now.

I can understand that in those days the thinking was different and maybe megha was exposed to Dali's nude art by her parents as a genuine way of educating the kid. I can also understand that they dint fully realise the impact of sexual imagery on a child's mind. those were different times and sensibilities.

What I cant understand is "why defend that now ?". Its like defending sati and tonsuring widow's heads.
Its just plainly inhumane and megha is affected. Her aggressive anti-male feminist reaction is a result of subconcious emotions spilling over.

Dr. Indira

Sriram said...

Oooh! At last! someone predicts me! waaa heeeeey..

And after reading your comment, can I point out that you've spent an inappropriate amount of time on child molestation and the like? it sounds like someone has a problem dealing wtih their past and its not me or megha. Besides, I wonder if Megha is so anti-male, how am I still alive?

On a side note, I'm absolutely bored and I'm close to being bored to death after reading your comment. All I see is "blah blah blah". When quoting a paper, be sure to READ what it says. For eg : "Therefore, in order to warn the adolescent Salvador of the dangers involved, he gave him books containing pictures of the lesions caused by syphilis. Dalí remembered these illustrations as being frightening and repulsive and came to associate them with sexuality as a whole. This led him to avoid any form of carnal contact and to rely on onanism as his source of pleasure." That is all that was said about Dali's exposure to pictures of lesions caused by syphilis. You must really be a genius to figure out that it explicitly states that Dali's paintings were influenced by it, because I can't seem to find a single source that says so. But then, you aren't the type that reads something fully and makes a conclusion, so I'll let that pass. And try a different topic next. This child porn thing is boring.

Oh and boo hoo, I don't have etiquette.. I don't know how to treat women.. so said a troll.. I'm going to commit suicide now. Woe is me. Bite me, you sad piece of shit. There's nothing more pathetic than a deluded, cowardly troll. Let's see you post an address to where you work or a phone number and then you'll get the respect you so yearn for. Fucking prick.

sac said...

@dr indira: thank you for bothering to write with more care for spelling. it does make a difference.
okay look, no-one here is saying child abuse is something to be taken lightly or to condone. what i for one am angry at you for is not for making this daft Dali connection - that's entirely your view, and you have a right to believe it, that a bare-breasted woman in a painting by a universally acknowledged master artist is something a modern child should not be 'exposed' to - but for forcing this unsolicited point of view on megha and everyone else here, to the extent of insisting that megha's parents abused her as a child.
at the very least, that is an astonishing lack of basic manners you have displayed. it is immensely crude and tasteless to turn up on someone's blog and insist in public they have been abused as a child. you know absolutely nothing about megha. her childhood is truly none of your concern.
please exercise the ethics of a medical professional if you are indeed one, and desist. if megha has life-traumatising issues she will approach a doc on her own, or learn to deal with it eventually; in any case i very much doubt she is in need of 'saving' by an anonymous trawler of the internet. you also have the option of emailing her privately, at the address on her profile page, if your heart bleeds for her uncontrollably. or if you think the www simply cannot do without your advice, why not start a blog of your own. finally, please note that these are suggestions which, if made face to face, would stand a high chance of earning a punch in return. you might want to not try this in daily life. thanks.

@megha: new post, girl, for Dali's sake!

Sriram said...

@ Indira,
I really doubt you would understand what sac says. And, to be fair sac pretty much hits the nail on the head. I've had a fucking horrible day and so, I'll save the sarcasm and witty comments for another day.

All that said and done, I'd really love to meet you face to face and have a nice "quiet" chat. (This "quiet" chat may or may not involve steel chairs to the head, sledge-hammers to the skull and fists saying hello to faces.)

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